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Shut Up. We're Talking.
Host: Darren and Karen
Darren and Karen present this commentary podcast covering recent topics found within the MMORPG Blogging and Podcasting community.

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Shut Up! We're Talking #5
Mon, 23 Jul 2007 01:50:00 GMT [download/play]



Agenda for Today:
1. Introductions - who we are
2. Listener mail/What we're playing
3. I'm not dead yet!
4. Give me an 'M'.
5. E3 Blogging coverage
6. Hitting the same old rat
7. WTF!!Barbie Online??
8. Blog of the week

Hosts:
Darren - CommonSenseGamer.com
Adele - adelecaelia.wordpress.com
Michael - MMOGnation.com
Marc - alaph.net

Blogs:
damianov.wordpress.com
eyeslikeours.com
hallower1980.blogspot.com
moorgard.com
gamingmmo.com
commonsensegamer.com
keenandgraev.com
nosignalinput.co.uk
dubiousquality.blogspot.com
nerfbat.com
random-battle.com

Blog of the week:
mushiii.wordpress.com

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Previous Episodes
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Episode #59 - Duration: 01:37:24 - Released: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 03:48:00 GMT
Episode #58 - Duration: 01:21:01 - Released: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 18:45:00 GMT
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Episode #56.5 - Duration: 00:02:21 - Released: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 12:26:00 GMT
Episode #56 - Duration: 01:01:53 - Released: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 19:41:00 GMT
Episode #55 - Duration: 01:16:27 - Released: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 02:31:00 GMT
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Episode #52 - Duration: 01:04:24 - Released: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 16:35:00 GMT
Episode #51 - Duration: 01:17:30 - Released: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 23:49:00 GMT
Episode #50 - Duration: 01:35:33 - Released: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 16:15:00 GMT
Episode #49 - Duration: 01:03:31 - Released: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 21:27:00 GMT
Episode #48 - Duration: 01:13:44 - Released: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 15:25:00 GMT
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Episode #1 - Duration: 01:08:21 - Released: Mon, 28 May 2007 02:12:00 GMT

Episode 5 Discussion Thread

'Thoughts from an Adele fan' by Darqcrimson
Submitted on 2007-07-23 05:44:30 CST
1) Hello
2) Guild Wars PvP, 2 Beta mmo's
3) More death penalty is needed not less. My experience in Diablo II playing many characters in Hardcore mode on Battle.net has yet to be surpassed.
4) Games that are marked as Mature will mean little other than attract the younger players to see what it is all about. But it does offer a warning to parents to not buy this for their 10 year old son to play.
5) No comment.
6) I have stayed away from mmo's for the most part because of this factor.
7) I want to know what the PvP in Barbie Online is like?

Thanks it was a great Podcast!



'Enjoy' by darrenl
Submitted on 2007-07-23 06:31:30 CST
Hope everyone enjoys this one.

Skype was being a bit of a turd this show...and there someone let me know there was some "clicking" in there. Probably a mouse or something.

...but hey, we have a parrot named Ninja in there, so that more than makes up it :)



'Great Podcast this week!' by Xavious
Submitted on 2007-07-23 07:49:46 CST
Loved the guest speaker Adele, felt everyone worked together very well. It sounded like you guys had a good time!

Cheers!



'I laughed quite a bit' by scytale2
Submitted on 2007-07-23 09:17:16 CST
...in this podcast, which has to be a good thing.

Initially, I couldn't understand Adele's accent, but after a bit, I either got used to it, or sound improved.

The permadeath argument was a bit short on content, but it is definitely one that is worth exploring. You should have perhaps touched on the "Reality" vs "Game" debate. The other possibility is to give people a number of "Lives", rather than auto permadeath. At the moment the instability of connections are such that it is too risky to have such a rule anyway. When everyone is on-line all the time then deaths aren't so likely caused by lag spikes.

Adele gave us some insight into what Kids are thinking nowadays about their on-line time, which was very interesting. Certainly the idea of whole classes meeting up on-line puts a very different dynamic on education, where schools only run from 9am till 3pm, but this is another topic and a half:)

Other than that 'twas good, so well done. I think the idea of gathering the actual bloggers together for a chat is a good one.



'DAMN YOU CHARTER' by alaph
Submitted on 2007-07-23 12:48:49 CST
This was a ton of fun to do the only complaint I have was how badly I sounded due to Charters crappy connection :(

Great fun and I can't wait to do it again :)



'good show' by hallower
Submitted on 2007-07-23 14:18:01 CST
A nice mix of hosts. The parrot doesn\'t speak much; but when he does, people listen. A wise bird.

Every time someone mentions my site, I feel like a whip is being cracked at my back to get me writing. Thanks though.

Man, I know I'm long-winded, but it's pretty bad when you go over the comment word limit! I'll make them separate comments, I guess.



'good show' by hallower
Submitted on 2007-07-23 14:18:32 CST
DEATH PENALTIES
Y\'all say that it would be too easy if a player respawned with no other mechanical penalty than having to run back to the enemy to try again, but do you also believe single-player games, like first-person shooters, are too easy when they do that? Is Halo too easy because death means just going back to try again?

I think enjoying the moment, the action, is the key ingredient that makes the Halo example different from an MMO. The problem is that MMO players don\'t typically play the game for the action, for those momentary experiences. Instead, they\'re playing past the action -- the action is just a means to an end; the end being equipment and skill progression. Yet KOTOR didn\'t have that problem, nor does Oblivion, nor will Mass Effect, I bet... despite all being RPGs.

Most MMO gamers will tell you they enjoy the combat, but they\'re obviously fooling themselves if they feel a death penalty is necessary to care about death. The reality is they like some of the elements of MMO combat, and not combat overall. The day an MMO player runs over to an enemy to kill it just because he saw it, with no thought to loot or progression... just because of interest in combat, that will be the day no extra penalty is needed. Like I said in my blog on the subject: \"Further penalties are typically just a cop-out, strong-arming the player to care about a gameplay system that is not sufficiently engaging.\" (and yes, it feels funny quoting myself)



'censorship and E3' by hallower
Submitted on 2007-07-23 14:20:10 CST
CENSORSHIP
If games with a rating like Manhunt 2 are effectively banned because nobody will sell them, then that seems like an issue with retailers more than the ESRB. Afterall, you can't buy NC-17 movies at Walmart or plenty of other major retailers, yet those DVDs still get sold. Game publishers need to find alternate retail avenues, as film publishers do.

Ultimately though, rating systems are a parent's dream that will never come true. Even in the best rating systems, the rating doesn't offer much info. If parents are genuinely interested in guiding their child's media consumption, they'll take the time to read reviews.

E3
I guess I'll finally jump into the pool and write my next blog on this one. I'm a little surprised by the reaction to this year's E3. It seems people didn't want to believe what the industry said last year about how the expo was going to change. I think the change is a good thing.



'Prezzer' by Prezzer
Submitted on 2007-07-23 14:36:49 CST
Great podcast and a great mix of guests. Enjoyed the diversion into Barbie Online, are the Bratz likely to make a rival offering? ;) Parrots FTW!


'comment space lengthened' by Brent
Submitted on 2007-07-23 14:48:20 CST
(Increased comment cutoff length from 2500 characters to 7000, if that's not long enough, let me know. With comment content rapidly increasing lately, I'm looking into the best solution with care. Thanks.)


'Too bad' by Akely
Submitted on 2007-07-23 15:21:12 CST
Top bad about the sound quality. It did its best to ruin the show. It did not succeed.

I did find most of the material very interesting, especially the Barbie discussion No, I'm not into Barbie. But the discussion about kids and games, keeping the discussion about game ratings in fresh memory was interesting. Here we have ratings pushed on games by the very same people that frown if you tell them you are over 40 and play games. Of course it is censorship. And of course the M rating just makes the kids want it even more. And as you said: most parents do not game and thinks all games are for kids. It's a lose-lose situation. Hats off to Adele for actively knowing about her kids gaming, monitoring and caring.

Granted, that last stuff is more on my mind these days since my son just turned 1. Soon he can wiggle a mouse! He already slam keyboards pretty good.

/rant



'censorship isn't a bad word' by hallower
Submitted on 2007-07-23 17:17:14 CST
The word "censorship" often gets used as if any censorship is inherently a bad thing, so it's important to keep in mind that nearly everbody approves of censorship of some kind or in some area.

When I hear people complaining about censorship of any media (games, movies, books, etc.), the thought that I think is usually underlying their words is that sex and violence are subjects that we should be more free to show or discuss. Odds are, those same people would not complain about censorship in the form of preventing a game from making jokes about "fags" or poking fun at people with disabilities. They also might not complain if censorship prevented games that praised Nazi ideology or rebels killing civilians with bus bombs.

So whenever we're talking about censorship, it helps to remember that what we're really talking about is "what should be censored?". It's not just uptight conservatives and paranoid parents who call for censorship.



'Podcast #5 - Mushiii' by Mushii
Submitted on 2007-07-25 02:47:30 CST
I just wanted to say a huge thank you for voting me blog of the week and the nice comments that were made about my blog. To answer the question, yes I am a male gamer. I have listened to your show from day 1 and listened to Brents show from the first episode also and look forward every week to both shows and your views and comments on the gaming industry and community in general. Please keep up the good work.

Mushiii

http://mushiii.wordpress.com/



'The "aargg" game that no one is playing . . . . .' by Jossfan
Submitted on 2007-07-25 16:30:51 CST
. . . . and I'm definitely not playing it either, but if I was I'd predict that it will launch big for a non-fantasy title, but won't hold its players. 'Course since it will be part of the station pass, it probably won't have to.


'Death Penalties' by maestrod
Submitted on 2007-08-01 13:10:55 CST

The only true loss in an MMO game is time.

1. Running back to body = time
2. Losing gold = time spend earning more gold
3. Losing xp = time spent regaining xp
4. Losing equipment = time spent replacing equipment

In a PvE scenario the amount of time lost from a death is the only real variable. Systems that cause loss of equipment or damage to equipment that needs to be repaired tend to increase the risk the more expensive and or rare your equipment is.

In a PvP environment an additional factor is that one players loss (or part of that loss) may become another's gain, especially when we're talking about equipent. Picking up a awesome sword from a raider that spent 10 hours of game time getting, is a truly awesome reward for a few minutes of PvP.

Anyway, it bothers me when people claim that "game x" has no death penalty. Unless you instantly stand up upon "death" there's always some.