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Shut Up. We're Talking.
Host: Darren and Karen
Darren and Karen present this commentary podcast covering recent topics found within the MMORPG Blogging and Podcasting community.

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Shut Up. We're Talking #44
Mon, 16 Mar 2009 16:15:00 GMT [download/play]

  • Introductions
  • What we're playing
  • Stepping Outside the Box
  • Vanguard RMT
  • Trailers and stuff...
  • Blog of the Week

  • Hosts:
  • Darren -
  • Karen - Journey's with Jaye
  • Bill - Inner Sanctum of the Ninveah

  • Outside the Box
  • Vanguard RMT
  • What is Real...what is not

    Blog of the Week:
  • NecroRogIcon

  • Login to post a comment
    Previous Episodes
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    Episode #56.5 - Duration: 00:02:21 - Released: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 12:26:00 GMT
    Episode #56 - Duration: 01:01:53 - Released: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 19:41:00 GMT
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    Episode #52.5 - Duration: 00:04:12 - Released: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 19:43:00 GMT
    Episode #52 - Duration: 01:04:24 - Released: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 16:35:00 GMT
    Episode #51 - Duration: 01:17:30 - Released: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 23:49:00 GMT
    Episode #50 - Duration: 01:35:33 - Released: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 16:15:00 GMT
    Episode #49 - Duration: 01:03:31 - Released: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 21:27:00 GMT
    Episode #48 - Duration: 01:13:44 - Released: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 15:25:00 GMT
    Episode #47 - Duration: 01:10:07 - Released: Sun, 10 May 2009 21:21:00 GMT
    Episode #46 - Duration: 01:27:11 - Released: Mon, 4 May 2009 02:05:00 GMT
    Episode #45 - Duration: 01:04:36 - Released: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 20:01:00 GMT
    Episode #44 - Duration: 00:56:47 - Released: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 16:15:00 GMT
    Episode #43.1 - Duration: 00:18:59 - Released: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 20:11:00 GMT
    Episode #43 - Duration: 00:59:34 - Released: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 01:24:00 GMT
    Episode #42 - Duration: 01:11:28 - Released: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 15:14:00 GMT
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    Episode #17 - Duration: 01:36:26 - Released: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 04:07:00 GMT
    Episode #16 - Duration: 01:06:39 - Released: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 15:58:00 GMT
    Episode #15 - Duration: 01:33:23 - Released: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 01:24:00 GMT
    Episode #14 - Duration: 01:24:15 - Released: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 07:47:00 GMT
    Episode #13 - Duration: 01:22:18 - Released: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 01:30:00 GMT
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    Episode #2 - Duration: 01:09:48 - Released: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 05:20:00 GMT
    Episode #1 - Duration: 01:08:21 - Released: Mon, 28 May 2007 02:12:00 GMT

    Episode 44 Discussion Thread

    'In the News' by Akely
    Submitted on 2009-03-16 17:41:21 CST
    The Angry Gaming Noob solves a problem with a stuck garage door. least that is what I was told.

    'Seriously' by Akely
    Submitted on 2009-03-16 18:32:54 CST
    RMT Vanguard:
    Good points all around. Like Bill I'm a bit shocked. And if I'm not totally wrong there are three servers for Vangaurd. One might argue that leaving one of them as it is now would have been a smarter move.

    Real and Not:
    A big difference between movie trailers and (many) game trailers is just that the movie trailer is cuts from the movie. Game trailers is often CGI, and often not related to the games features. Personally I did find the old EVE trailers a lot more impressing, because the where just that: EVE trailers - not "artists impression".

    Get well, Karen! Talisker is good for throat ailments.

    'For the record..' by Wilhelm2451
    Submitted on 2009-03-16 19:52:15 CST
    For the record, it was not my garage door that was having the issue, but that of an elderly relation, and the garage in question was so full of crap (and it was the crap that was causing the problem) that there was no possibility of anybody mistakenly thinking they could actually park a car.

    Now I'll have to do a post of my own views on Vanguard RMT.

    Hey, Karen, when are you going to post on your blog again? I tagged you for that screen shot meme. (replay of a comment that went down with the lost show.)

    'NPE' by Yoh
    Submitted on 2009-03-16 21:16:42 CST
    As an EVE player that has been away for awhile, I've just gone back a tried out the new player experience with a 14 day trial account.

    And its good. Simple, straightforward, a bit buggy, but solid all the same.
    Loving the new effects, esp the warp and jump effects.

    Still need to get my probing skills up so I can explore wormhole space and die.
    All and all, I'm liking Apocrypha from a return/newish player perspective. Its good.

    '@ Wilhelm' by Jaye
    Submitted on 2009-03-16 22:14:08 CST
    Glad the garage is all set - we missed you!

    As for my blog, I uh, well....look! A Bike!


    '@ Karen' by darrenl
    Submitted on 2009-03-17 03:18:45 CST
    A Bike?! Where?


    ...waaaait a minute

    ...damnit Karen!!

    '@ Karen, @ Akely, @ Show' by tpajeek
    Submitted on 2009-03-17 11:53:11 CST
    Karen, first most, get well soon! You just came off that last nasty lingering cold and were sounding good then this hit you? Ouch! I second the Talisker, Vintner's Reserve, for just about anything. :)

    Really surprised when you were talking about trailers for new and current games that Vanguard was not mentioned, considering all of the official ones were specifically designed with Ingame shots to show just how amazing the graphic engine truly is and how the game plays just like the video.

    Akely, sorry, but you are mistaken, there are 4 Vanguard servers (Seradon, Xeth, Halgar, & Sartok), and it does suck that they didn't just pick 1-2 instead of all 3. I guess they felt some folks would have felt slighted if they did not treat all the same and the fact that only two are alike, it would have made an awkward decision to do the PvP, EU, and 1 US, but not the other one. Fortunately, this will end up being mostly cosmetic purchases and will not affect gameplay, but it does not appear it will go that route from the comments on the forums.

    Thanks for another great show and maybe you should consider a new medium for recording so you have the raw files local and don't lose entire evenings of conversation!

    'RMT in Sony games' by nerfit
    Submitted on 2009-03-17 14:14:41 CST
    Loved the podcast, as usual!

    I wanted to comment about the new RMT in Vanguard. I have not played that game, but I have played eq2 for years, on both SE servers and non-SE servers (iow, both with and without RMT enabled).

    First point is that there is really not much difference between the two server types, from the point of view of the player. Keep in mind that RMT exists on both, whether people like it or not. On the SE systems at least it's out in the open. So a lot of the issue is psychological: what you are used to or what preconceptions you may have about RMT.

    Second, very few items are actually bought/sold. The vast majority of trades are either plat or characters. Regarding the latter, here is something you may not have considered. Character purchase is a way you can get a friend involved immediately. Say you are in a raiding guild, and you need a mage. You have a friend who is perhaps familiar with MMOs, but has never played with you in your game because he/she does not want to "start over" and level all the way up before they can play/raid with you and your guild.

    Well, now they can. For a few bucks ... boom they are level cap and gtg. They will be playing and having fun with you today. Many weeks of tedium avoided. I have seen this happen, it works.

    What I am saying is that this is a way to *maybe* bring in new players, friends that would like to try the game, but were hesitant to make a huge time commitment to find out if they liked that particular game or guild. And the kicker is, if it turns out they do not like the game, they can simply resell the character and potentially get most of their money back.

    There are other things I like about the RMT model, but this is one striking thing that some folks may not be aware of, that I thought was worth a mention.

    'Can you here me now? Yea!' by mikejl
    Submitted on 2009-03-17 15:07:14 CST
    Good to here you all again. As for RMT... I guess I don't see it as a big deal. Looks like a nice feature to most games.

    And JRPGs ... *shudder* I also dislike them. Thirteen year old boygirls with swords the size of a truck. And really annoying sounding pets and voices.

    Oh well . that's just me.

    Glad this week recorded good.


    'Ah. Thanks for clearing it up, tpajeek.' by Akely
    Submitted on 2009-03-17 17:25:11 CST
    I did not consider that the different servers where different regions, PvE/PvP. Sloppy thinking, I suppose. Thanks for the clarification. So any which way they are damned... Sucks, I guess.

    I also never thought of the "buying a character to be able to play with your friends that have 6 months head start". There is always possible to menter down to newbies, but the point is very valid. Good thinking.

    'The comfort zone of exaggerated art.' by iphigenia
    Submitted on 2009-03-18 16:10:11 CST
    Love the podcast. Keep them coming! And now a slight
    gripe and a "call to arms!"...

    "Exaggerated art style" is a redundant, vague, and
    toothless complaint when referring to the artistic direction
    of Asian MMO titles. Massive online titles generally
    make use of "exaggerated" graphics regardless of the
    developer or genre (IE: World of Warcraft) for reasons
    that are both technical and aesthetic.

    Although an aversion to "Anime" inspired graphics is
    certainly understood (to each their own, as they say),
    painting all non-western titles with this brush does a
    minor disservice to these games. For example, Final
    Fantasy XI is distinctly Japanese in appearance but does
    not feature the kind of extreme Anime influence that tends
    to be popular with many free-to-play MMOs of Korean
    origin. In fact, by contrast the art style in FFXI is a more
    realistic take on character design than even Blizzard's
    800lb. Not better; not worse: just different and certainly
    not as "cartoon".

    The point of all this ranting? I'm not interested in comparing the
    cutesy Chocobo to the equally ridiculous and unrealistic
    Draenei. Instead I urge you to take a chance on
    something a little different. Try to look past the veneer
    and you might be pleasantly surprised by an alternate
    take on game design and battle mechanics. We all love
    these games for similar reasons. Let's embrace the small
    things that make each of these experiences unique.

    In conclusion I double-dog-dare you to give Final
    Fantasy XI a try, even if you gave it a shot just after
    launch. Sure it's has Moogles and grinding and some
    obscure story telling, but in my opinion has some of the
    best features of any MMO out there. Multi-classing,
    endgame in spades and a player community like no other
    is just the tip of the iceberg. SE has made adjustments to
    the game in the last year that shouldn't be missed. See
    you in Vana-diel!

    '\o/' by FarSpace
    Submitted on 2009-03-18 17:46:08 CST
    about RMT, As long as people are not made to have unfair advantages and others are made to feel they are falling behind if they can't afford to pay for RMT

    'FFXI' by Seritaph
    Submitted on 2009-03-18 17:51:15 CST
    FFXI is a very good game. I played it a few years ago when it first released. Yes my character was a Tarutaru white mage. He looked like a cross between a scarecrow and a voodoo doll, only cuter. Point is, despite the strange and wonderful races the game has, the graphics and gameplay are actually quite good. It's not such a stretch from the original EQ that westerners couldn't pick it up and play -- at least it wasn't when I played, things may have changed since then.

    Keep in mind, it's more like EQ than WoW, in that you probably won't be able to blaze through the game content solo. At least when I played, grouping was a necessary thing, but it's also incredibly fun.

    'RMT' by Brad
    Submitted on 2009-03-19 16:01:04 CST
    I'm all for RMT in games, I play EQ2 as well on both normal and the RMT servers. I agree as the main poster that there is not much difference from the players perspective. I've bought toons to skip past much of the newbie leveling to get them into the 30's for fairly cheap amount, but I personally won't pay the high prices that people want for a maxed out, raid geared toon. But it is much easier to come into a game, load up with some cheap gold/platinum, and enjoy PLAYING rather than spending time grinding for money.

    I think what some worry about is a player buying their way into end game content/raiding. I say so what ? If they suck as a player, then no amount of money will change their lack of skill to raid. If they are good, then that player will pick up pretty easily on a toon who could be ready to raid, but at the same time the person might not feel as attached or bonded with that character since they didn't have the time invested with it. But with that, the only person who suffers is the player who bought the toon.

    RMT on a server still makes things like botting and spamming against the TOS, that part hasn't changed a bit. And besides, you are already giving a company cash for game items just by your subscription to it.

    'Good Show' by bluekae
    Submitted on 2009-03-19 16:54:25 CST
    Especially enjoyed this weeks show, I hope to hear from Bill again.

    'Need help finding ... ' by Carmedil
    Submitted on 2009-03-23 16:47:53 CST
    Hi, I'm using this podium to ask the SUWT panel of experts the following question:

    "Could you point me to a few GOOD first person shooter type MMORPGs please ?"

    I'm looking for something more deep than the Batlefield or Call of Duty experience, maybe something at least with the depth of Dawn of War 2 but of the shooter type.

    Thanks in advance,


    '@ carmedil' by Token
    Submitted on 2009-03-23 18:01:32 CST
    @ carmedil
    At this point there's only one bit of hope, you can find it at

    People will tell you about Huxley too but the developers cant decide what game they are making and it's never coming out. I don't want to sound negative but there just isn't anything out right now that merges high quality Call of Duty shooter game play with an MMO. A few years ago I'd recommend PlanetSide in a heartbeat, it's my favorite game of all time and delivered on everything your looking for, but it's kinda too late.

    'Thanks' by Carmedil
    Submitted on 2009-03-23 19:28:19 CST
    Many thanks I'll take a look.

    But is it too late for Planetside ? Doesn't it still run with Sony ?

    'nice' by Token
    Submitted on 2009-03-23 20:11:07 CST
    Trying PlanetSide as a new player could be very rewarding, it's still the best concept ever realized in a game imo. I just don't know if it's got the spark anymore. I haven't played in far too long because it wont run on my Vista machine...

    'RMT and Cuteness' by CindyL
    Submitted on 2009-03-28 15:39:05 CST
    Okay so after being very shocked with station cash in EQ2 I can't say I'm all that surprised this happened to Vanguard. What I don't understand like many of you is why that game, the only thing I can come up with is that it's the one game with a small population Sony actually wants to keep running. Planetside and Matrix may have their days numbered. Hopefully not. :/

    FFXI, I'm going to echo people's comments here, that game is far removed from your typical F2P games and unlike those free games it is not PvP centric in fact it has some of the best PvE anywhere. If you want a throw back to Everquest without actually playing EQ again FFXI is your best bet for a similar experience in a new package. What's not to get about chocobos? :) They are mounts, did you really want horses in yet another fantasy game? It's a Final Fantasy trademark as well, chocobos have been the designated mounts since the 80's I think, like airships.