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Shut Up. We're Talking.
Host: Darren and Karen
Darren and Karen present this commentary podcast covering recent topics found within the MMORPG Blogging and Podcasting community.

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Shut Up. We're Talking #39
Mon, 15 Dec 2008 06:01:00 GMT [download/play]

Introductions

Listener mail/What we're playing

The Gates are Open

Another Bartle Factor

Blog of the Week

Hosts:

Darren - Commonsensegamer.com

Karen - Journey's with Jaye

Marc - The Craft of War

Jute - Revelry and Honor

Topics:

Community Managemetn

MarketPlace Flop

My RMT Suggestions

And this he's worried about?

Jack Bauer Wounldn't have these issues

RMT Rumours

Blog of the Week:

Limited Edition

Previous Episodes
Episode #77 - Duration: 2925 - Released: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 06:16:01 +0000
Episode #76 - Duration: 7730 - Released: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 19:34:01 +0000
Episode #75 - Duration: 4659 - Released: Sun, 12 Dec 2010 17:57:48 +0000
Episode #74 - Duration: 4071 - Released: Sun, 21 Nov 2010 20:22:45 +0000
Episode #73 - Duration: 4943 - Released: Sun, 07 Nov 2010 19:41:07 +0000
Episode #72 - Duration: 4707 - Released: Sun, 17 Oct 2010 18:28:52 +0000
Episode #71 - Duration: 3820 - Released: Sun, 26 Sep 2010 16:39:28 +0000
Episode #70 - Duration: 4623 - Released: Sun, 12 Sep 2010 15:51:32 +0000
Episode #69 - Duration: 4837 - Released: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 18:07:07 +0000
Episode #68 - Duration: 01:13:32 - Released: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 15:34:00 GMT
Episode #67 - Duration: 01:12:09 - Released: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 14:24:00 GMT
Episode #66 - Duration: 00:59:30 - Released: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 23:26:00 GMT
Episode #65 - Duration: 01:23:43 - Released: Sun, 20 Jun 2010 16:03:00 GMT
Episode #64 - Duration: - Released: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 15:51:00 GMT
Episode #63 - Duration: 01:13:26 - Released: Sun, 16 May 2010 17:52:00 GMT
Episode #62 - Duration: 01:12:04 - Released: Thu, 6 May 2010 23:28:00 GMT
Episode #61 - Duration: 01:26:12 - Released: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 01:26:00 GMT
Episode #60 - Duration: 01:57:27 - Released: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 23:34:00 GMT
Episode #59 - Duration: 01:37:24 - Released: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 03:48:00 GMT
Episode #58 - Duration: 01:21:01 - Released: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 18:45:00 GMT
Episode #57 - Duration: 01:47:46 - Released: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 19:01:00 GMT
Episode #56.5 - Duration: 00:02:21 - Released: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 12:26:00 GMT
Episode #56 - Duration: 01:01:53 - Released: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 19:41:00 GMT
Episode #55 - Duration: 01:16:27 - Released: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 02:31:00 GMT
Episode #54 - Duration: 01:14:25 - Released: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 01:51:00 GMT
Episode #53 - Duration: 01:31:47 - Released: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 04:12:00 GMT
Episode #52.5 - Duration: 00:04:12 - Released: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 19:43:00 GMT
Episode #52 - Duration: 01:04:24 - Released: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 16:35:00 GMT
Episode #51 - Duration: 01:17:30 - Released: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 23:49:00 GMT
Episode #50 - Duration: 01:35:33 - Released: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 16:15:00 GMT
Episode #49 - Duration: 01:03:31 - Released: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 21:27:00 GMT
Episode #48 - Duration: 01:13:44 - Released: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 15:25:00 GMT
Episode #47 - Duration: 01:10:07 - Released: Sun, 10 May 2009 21:21:00 GMT
Episode #46 - Duration: 01:27:11 - Released: Mon, 4 May 2009 02:05:00 GMT
Episode #45 - Duration: 01:04:36 - Released: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 20:01:00 GMT
Episode #44 - Duration: 00:56:47 - Released: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 16:15:00 GMT
Episode #43.1 - Duration: 00:18:59 - Released: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 20:11:00 GMT
Episode #43 - Duration: 00:59:34 - Released: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 01:24:00 GMT
Episode #42 - Duration: 01:11:28 - Released: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 15:14:00 GMT
Episode #41 - Duration: 01:06:59 - Released: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 01:55:00 GMT
Episode #40.5 - Duration: 00:02:50 - Released: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 17:48:00 GMT
Episode #40 - Duration: 01:16:52 - Released: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 02:45:00 GMT
Episode #39 - Duration: 01:08:43 - Released: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 06:01:00 GMT
Episode #38 - Duration: 00:37:38 - Released: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 05:49:00 GMT
Episode #37 - Duration: - Released: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 17:26:00 GMT
Episode #36 - Duration: 01:10:59 - Released: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 03:03:00 GMT
Episode #35 - Duration: 00:49:08 - Released: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 22:54:00 GMT
Episode #34 - Duration: 01:08:50 - Released: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 19:38:00 GMT
Episode #33 - Duration: 00:58:54 - Released: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 01:42:00 GMT
Episode #32 - Duration: 01:03:27 - Released: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 19:01:00 GMT
Episode #31 - Duration: 01:05:03 - Released: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 20:13:00 GMT
Episode #30 - Duration: 00:59:20 - Released: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 00:44:00 GMT
Episode #29 - Duration: 00:28:31 - Released: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 13:48:00 GMT
Episode #28 - Duration: 01:09:13 - Released: Sun, 15 Jun 2008 19:31:00 GMT
Episode #27 - Duration: 01:14:25 - Released: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 02:42:00 GMT
Episode #26 - Duration: 01:06:47 - Released: Mon, 19 May 2008 03:10:00 GMT
Episode #25 - Duration: 01:01:48 - Released: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 01:46:00 GMT
Episode #24 - Duration: 00:57:48 - Released: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 00:00:00 GMT
Episode #23 - Duration: 00:47:54 - Released: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 01:05:00 GMT
Episode #22 - Duration: 01:12:16 - Released: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 04:54:00 GMT
Episode #21 - Duration: 01:56:55 - Released: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 05:01:00 GMT
Episode #20 - Duration: 00:49:01 - Released: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 04:08:00 GMT
Episode #19 - Duration: 01:01:05 - Released: Sun, 3 Feb 2008 05:08:00 GMT
Episode #18 - Duration: 01:08:01 - Released: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 02:35:00 GMT
Episode #17 - Duration: 01:36:26 - Released: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 04:07:00 GMT
Episode #16 - Duration: 01:06:39 - Released: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 15:58:00 GMT
Episode #15 - Duration: 01:33:23 - Released: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 01:24:00 GMT
Episode #14 - Duration: 01:24:15 - Released: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 07:47:00 GMT
Episode #13 - Duration: 01:22:18 - Released: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 01:30:00 GMT
Episode #12 - Duration: 01:17:38 - Released: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 16:55:00 GMT
Episode #11 - Duration: 01:17:01 - Released: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 03:30:00 GMT
Episode #10 - Duration: 01:00:37 - Released: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 03:33:00 GMT
Episode #9 - Duration: 01:12:13 - Released: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 04:47:00 GMT
Episode #8 - Duration: 01:24:35 - Released: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 02:44:00 GMT
Episode #7 - Duration: 01:11:21 - Released: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 04:05:00 GMT
Episode #6 - Duration: 01:10:07 - Released: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 01:13:00 GMT
Episode #5 - Duration: 00:58:57 - Released: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 01:50:00 GMT
Episode #4 - Duration: 01:13:04 - Released: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 03:52:00 GMT
Episode #3 - Duration: 01:10:25 - Released: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 17:20:00 GMT
Episode #2 - Duration: 01:09:48 - Released: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 05:20:00 GMT
Episode #1 - Duration: 01:08:21 - Released: Mon, 28 May 2007 02:12:00 GMT

Episode 39 Discussion Thread

'Tabula Rasa' by Meithar

Submitted on 2008-12-15 06:27:49 CST
I kinda had a feeling this was going to happen, as back in November (6th - 8th) I attended the Wizard World Texas Comic Con in Arlington and people were emptying cases of the game onto a table for people to take for free.

I believe this was just before or after R. G. announced he was leaving NCSOFT for other ventures. I am saddened by this turn of events, for I grabbed 4 copies myself and was having fun running around shotgunning anything that moved lol.

At least I still have LOTRO and Vanguard.

'The Zombie Thing' by Wilhelm2451

Submitted on 2008-12-15 22:13:07 CST
It is the "scare crow" from the halloween event a couple years back that makes the zombie pop out in your house. Look for the crow acting all innocent, it is just waiting to scare you.

'Oh no...' by Wilhelm2451

Submitted on 2008-12-15 22:54:06 CST
I just got to the outtakes and found out our guild leader is a griefer. O noes!

A sweet voice often hides evil!

'torture......' by Viruzzz
Submitted on 2008-12-16 00:23:07 CST
Similar thing happened to Guild Wars. There's a sort of training area where you learn about the game mechanics, and they used to have a prisoner from the pirates who just attacked a village you were saving, who you could practice hexing on. Somebody got offended by this, and threatened with telling the media or something. I'm not sure on the specifics, but they ended up renaming that NPC to Sunspear Volunteer instead of Corsair Prisoner.

Also I think the main reason people don't kill guards is that usually the guardian NPC's are too hard for what you get from them. If they were actually worth killing, people would kill them all the time.

I personally think people who complain about things like this in a video game are more out of touch with reality than the people who are playing the game.

'Hmmm' by Marc

Submitted on 2008-12-16 21:44:51 CST

Is it me, or did I continue to restate the obvious for my entire duration on the show. Maybe it was my nerves from recording with the "Pros" :)

Thanks for the invite again. That was "hella" fun.

I would definitely torture someone with an electric zapper, or buy an ugly armor set or two to have an opportunity to do it again. Thanks guys.

'Being Evil in a MMO' by Sentack
Submitted on 2008-12-18 15:06:22 CST
If you guys want to see an MMO that has truly evil characters you can play, Try City of Villains. Most of the missions are fairly mundane in terms of being a villain. Stealing artifacts for cash, stealing secret documents, trying to aquire strange technology, etc. Pretty standard comic book villain stuff.

But occasionally, the game throws a real curve ball at yah, and makes you do some truely evil things. Capturing civilians so they can be turned into zombies. Throwing a good woman into the clutches of Arachnos because she was trying to help the people of Rogues Isles who is undoubtedly going to be tortured and possibly killed. In general, you do some REALLY evil stuff there. Torturing one guy looks damn pale in comparison to what your doing in that game. And it's not like people didn't feel squeamish about this. Even the quite writer chimed in and said he felt vaguely uncomfortable writing the quests. But everyone knew it was just a story, it was just a game, and that they had fun with it. It made them think, and that's really the point of good questing.

'WoW torture' by Pithius
Submitted on 2008-12-19 15:53:17 CST
In playing Wrath of the LItch King I've come across two different torture quests, and there are lore reasons behind both of the quests. The first is the Death Knight starter area and the reason is obvious. You are a Death knight serving the evil Litch King. You are supposed to be a truly evil bastard before your redemption. The second however is far more subtle, and is very easily missed if you don't read the text of the quests. I can't speak for the Alliance but on the Horde side there is a grand conspiricy. A more radical faction within the Horde that eventually errupts in a spectacular event within the game. This torture quest, along with a lot of the "darker" quests are given to you by members of this faction within a faction and I think are put there on purpose to make you feel a little more uncomfortable. These darker more out of the norm quests are an indication that something just isn't right, and in the end it turns out that you really haven't been serving the interests of the Horde after all.

I'd also point out that while a majority of quests send you out to kill various animals or enemies, there are several which have you rescuing people and saving animals.

The Death Knight torture quest is one you have to complete in order to move on, however you can refuse to do the quest. It won't let you progress further down the chain, but this particular chain, while interesting for the lore which unfolds, does not prevent you from progressing in any other aspect of the game. That being said, I would love to see an option along the way where you could choose to NOT do something and have that take you down a different path. I agree, that would add a significant layer of depth to your character. Warcraft as of yet simply isn't that game.

'Torture' by Kirath
Submitted on 2008-12-23 15:52:58 CST
Might be one of the few people who plays both WoW and EQ2. I can say try playing from freeport or Neriak. I play a dark elf Brigand and I started in Neriak. The whole idea of this starting area is torture, slavery, malice and hate. It's all part of the story and fun of playing a Dark elf. No matter what holiday it is or what world event I run I get the evil prospective. "Go spread this disease around" or "Go kill this good persons followers". You may not actually torture someone in a quest but you definatly are told to kill people in cold blood. Is that somehow better then torture? Personally, I think its all part of the fun of being a part of the evil side of EQ2. The same goes for WoW, I play a hunter and a rogue, both alliance and with either I had no problem with the torture part of this quest. Though I disagree with its use in real life, the quest line in game does not bother me.

I also, in the same zone helped out some druids whos orginization was similar to PETA. Again, I don't agree with PETA's methods in real life, but I had no problem helping their cause out in the game. Wonder if the same game designer did both quest lines?

So, I disagree with Karen and Jute in that somehow EQ2 has a higher sense of self righteousness. In fact it may have less...Though I wouldn't give either game up.

'EQ2 - Self Righteousness' by Jaye

Submitted on 2008-12-23 16:17:12 CST
I don't remember saying that EQ2 did a better job than WoW regarding moral decisions. In fact, I mentioned one quest in EQ2 (the quest in Fear to scare the pony into the jaws of a huge croc) that I felt was similar to the WoW torture quest - both make it a given that you're going to do something distasteful, but there should be an option to choose differently.

Having said that, I think you can say that EQ2 does give a way out for evil characters that are asked to do horrible things in the name of Lucan - betrayal.

'Thanks' by shuttler

Submitted on 2008-12-23 22:30:31 CST
Hey thanks for the Limited Edition blog love!

John