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Shut Up. We're Talking.
Host: Darren and Karen
Darren and Karen present this commentary podcast covering recent topics found within the MMORPG Blogging and Podcasting community.

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Shut Up! We're Talking #3
Sun, 24 Jun 2007 17:20:00 GMT [download/play]

Shut Up! We're Talking #3

Here's the agenda:
  • Introductions
  • Listener mail
  • New Bloggers/Advice/Tips/Tricks
  • Guilds: what are they good for?
  • MMOG Numbers
  • Are MMOs getting easy?
  • Gaming bodies
  • Blog of the Week
  • Bye-bye

  • Darren -
  • Cuppy -
  • Cyan -
  • Cameron -

  • New Bloggers
  • So You Want to Be a Blogger?
  • Family Guild: Safe Haven from Drama?
  • Musing on Guilds
  • World of Warcraft in decline
  • MMOG subscriptions
  • MMOGEase
  • MMORPGs Are Too Easy
  • The Girls of WoW
  • Idealizing Fantasy Bodies

  • Login to post a comment
    Previous Episodes
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    Episode #1 - Duration: 01:08:21 - Released: Mon, 28 May 2007 02:12:00 GMT

    Episode 3 Discussion Thread

    'Enjoy' by darrenl
    Submitted on 2007-06-24 16:45:26 CST
    Hope everyone enjoys this one...

    ...I switched over to a new editing tool, so forgive the rough stuff in there.


    'Sounds good to me' by QforQ
    Submitted on 2007-06-24 17:08:06 CST
    I enjoy the new hosts :) Hopefully you can do this more often.

    'Yay!' by Cuppycake
    Submitted on 2007-06-24 18:36:18 CST
    Hope everyone enjoys my last podcast with SUWT! =) It was a fun one this time, with alcohol!!

    'already gone' by hallower
    Submitted on 2007-06-24 23:43:38 CST
    I like how there were 4 speakers at the same time on this one. Nice one.

    Gratz to Cuppy on the new job. It figures that i'd only happen across your blog right as it's about to go on hiatus. =/

    Question! I think y'all mentioned this somewhere in the podcast, but I've already forgottten it. What's the name of that blog where the host proposes an MMO that spans all genres? I've been to it before, but can't remember the name now that I've got an idea for the host. Again, it figures.

    'here you go' by Cuppycake
    Submitted on 2007-06-24 23:50:30 CST
    Hey Hallower, my blog isn't going on hiatus =)

    Here's the link you're looking for:

    Its Pixie Styx. =)

    'thanks' by hallower
    Submitted on 2007-06-25 00:48:37 CST
    Thanks. I finally finished my post there.

    I thought you said in the podcast that your move to a new state meant your site would probably get neglected a little while? Anyway, I'll keep checking it.

    'Missing?' by Akely
    Submitted on 2007-06-25 02:55:16 CST
    No... not Cuppy... good riddance!

    Just kidding, sad to hear you're leaving. But jobs are jobs. Especially good ones. All the best!

    What I did miss (or did I fall asleep) was a re-hash/talt about the idea articles over at Never mind it is self-promotion. It has been a pretty lively, and very interesting, series of blogs.

    'No whiskey when it is hot?' by Akely
    Submitted on 2007-06-25 03:34:30 CST
    Mint Juleps come to mind. Excellent summer drink. Even Auric Goldfinger thinks so! Granted it is not Single Malt, but as a summer drink it is awesome.

    'The drink-esode' by Oakstout
    Submitted on 2007-06-25 10:11:34 CST
    Don't take this the wrong way, I love to drink, but....

    If your not all trying something different and unusual together or inventing something new each podcast, the drinking thing gets kind of old.

    Tavencast did it right by finding a unique beer or mixed drink each week and critiqued it. Telling everyone what your drinking is not that appealing to me unless its something new and interesting. I've had Corona with lime and Sam Adams summer logger, why would that interest me that your drinking it?

    Other than that, great podcast as usual. Sorry, if I'm gonna tell you what I like, I have to tell you what I don't like.

    'beer...' by Cuppycake
    Submitted on 2007-06-25 10:14:43 CST
    Oakstout - The only reason that we went through and said what we were drinking was because Eric/Cyanbane was on the show and it's a regular feature on his show, EQ2-Daily. As far as I know, its not going to be a regular feature of the show.

    'Drinking' by Cameron
    Submitted on 2007-06-25 11:06:43 CST
    ...unless Darren is having trouble coping with the loss of his co-host. ::grin::

    Sigh. My verbal pauses make me sad.

    'Emails to Darren' by cyanbane
    Submitted on 2007-06-25 11:09:05 CST
    I think all listeners should email darren (multiple times if you feel the need!) a single emial for every type of beer/alcholic beverage you as a listener have ever drank, seen, or thought about drinking. That way Darren can compile a list of all the beers everyone who is listening might have drank and he can be sure to not drink those specific beers.

    'LOL Cyan' by Cuppycake
    Submitted on 2007-06-25 11:12:08 CST
    cyan, you crack me up =) Silly guy.

    'Cuppycake beer!' by Oakstout
    Submitted on 2007-06-25 11:45:55 CST
    Sorry, shouldn't be so critical. ;)

    'Cyanbane' by cyanbane
    Submitted on 2007-06-25 12:29:53 CST
    Sorry, shouldn't be so snarky :) was just kidding oaks.

    'Beer Snark' by Oakstout
    Submitted on 2007-06-25 16:16:40 CST
    Np! I guess I'm slow and didn't realize it was a tribute to the guests of the show. I'll go back to my stout oak tree now.
    Cuppy, you will be missed.

    'Good luck Cuppy' by fl1pper
    Submitted on 2007-06-25 18:25:19 CST
    Great show again you guys. Sorry to hear you are leaving the show Cuppy, but good luck in the new job.

    As an eq2-daily listener and a stereotypical Brit, I feel I must say that I drank large amounts of cheap lager while listening to the show 8-)

    'Good luck and Great Show' by brackishwater
    Submitted on 2007-06-26 09:10:34 CST
    Nice job guys,
    Sorry to hear you are leaving but best of luck in the move and job in SD.
    BTW, no link in the notes. Im really loving this conversation here and where it may go.

    'Good show!' by Jaye
    Submitted on 2007-06-26 17:16:03 CST
    Good show again, and thanks for reading my comment about why I blog. Just wanted to add, though, that I'm not a guy. I'm actually a stay at home mother of two, and definitely female. No offense taken, though, I'm a happy listener. :)

    'Raiding is deffinately a skill' by BiggDawg98
    Submitted on 2007-06-28 09:47:00 CST
    First I want to ask how far in WoW raiding you all got? It sounds like you probably never got much past Molten Core really (Chromaggus is the one that does different debuffs btw). Especially as you progress more and more in end game content the amount of skill you need increases. Skill is a factor in raiding, to say otherwise is kinda foolish. This is evident by the fact that some players straight up suck too much to be in a raid. To be a successful raider you must know your class very well so that you can adapt to the situation.

    Molten Core is the intro to raiding and you can have several bad players and still progress. When you get into BWL you start to realize that you need skilled players. When you get to BWL if you have even one person who isn't up to par you will not progress. Now as your gear level increases you begin to out gear a raid then you have a certain room for user error. However while you are truly progressing in new content from BWL on you need skilled players. Now this isnt to say that skill at raiding is like being a doctor or anything, but there is an attribute that some people have and others don't that make them good raiders.

    No MMORPG takes any great level of skill, it's just button mashing. But even within just button mashing there is differentiation between players based on their ability to take information in and make good decisions quickly. There are plenty of raid fights where people have to not only coordinate with the rest of the raid, but they have to be able to play their class to it's fullest. This is skill. I don't care who your raid leader is, once you are at and beyond BWL, if you do not have skill you will fail. So while being a skilled raider doesn't make you a doctor, to say there is no skill and you always use the same formula to beat every boss and therefore could substitute any player into the raid is just not accurate.

    'BiggDawg..' by Cuppycake
    Submitted on 2007-06-28 09:49:56 CST
    Sorry, but we'll have to agree to disagree. I raided through BWL, and that's all.

    I wouldn't say you needed SKILLED players in BWL, you needed players who paid attention. Paying attention is a life skill, not a game skill. I just disagree that memorizing the strats for a raid boss and hitting the right buttons at the right time is 'skill'.

    'Me too' by Dathmar
    Submitted on 2007-06-28 11:05:53 CST
    I agree with Cuppy here.
    I think there are only a handful (that are needed) of truly skilled people in most raids - they are the raid leaders
    I think its a combination of knowning the strategy for the Instance ,organising the "right" team and making sure that everyone is doing their thing.
    If you do what you have been told and have some common sense, you can get through most instances.

    'Skill?' by Akely
    Submitted on 2007-06-28 15:09:23 CST
    I would argue that you do need some skill. Granted I have not played WoW, only EQ2 and LOTRO. The little raiding I have done in EQ2 taught me that you do need some skill. As a healer it is quite obvious when people can not control aggro, pulls to much, uses to little debuffs, buffs the wrong player... and so on.

    BUT, and it is a big but, those skills are just as important when grouping. And perhaps even when soloing. You got to know when to do what. That's Combat Technique. Which I think is a skill.

    In the broader view you got to know where to go, and which mobs to pull (and sometimes in what order). How you pull can have a huge impact in EQ2. Knowing these things is Tactics. This is also a skill.

    Ah well... we can debate this till I turn blue in the face. But I'll grab a beer and watch you guys shot my arguments down.

    'Marginally more interesting' by scytale2
    Submitted on 2007-06-29 07:47:54 CST
    It's taken me all week to listen to this one and it was a bit better with more people and I warmed a bit more to Cuppy, as she argued her case against the men.
    I'm not sure how you can let this "beauty in MMO" point of view go unchallenged, however. I suppose I would argue that I play an MMO RPG to interact socially through roleplaying and the idea of playing some charismatic athletic guy all the time would get dreadfully tedious.
    Is it important to me to look good? Actually no it isn't. It is important to look different and distinctive and I think that is rather more significant. Would I play an ugly character? If it would add enjoyment to the game for me and others, of course I would. Is my avatar an extension of me? Sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't. When I played Undead in WoW, it certainly wasn't, but maybe my protective elf warrior that I played most had to be.
    Taking this argument a bit further, when people PvP, is this the character they are in real life, taking advantage of downtrodden people and crowing about the size of their weapon? Well maybe it is...

    'WoW numbers' by Heartless
    Submitted on 2007-07-02 10:16:33 CST
    The WoW numbers came from Rollie at by analyzing player submissions. Rollie is quite a statistics wiz, so he molds numbers into fairly reliable chunks to consume.

    The player activity level in WoW is actually quite a bit higher than it was before TBC launched. So, the game peaked after TBC, and is declining in activity.

    As Raph pointed out, this is common and predictable. The biggest thing to note is that WoW is being played more consistently by it's player base now that TBC has come around.

    The point to get worried as a WoW player is if that activity suddenly declines... which is not the current case.

    'Are MMOs getting easy?' by mrluigi
    Submitted on 2007-07-04 02:18:56 CST
    I have been saying that MMOs are getting too easy since the first day that risk of dying in a game would only result in time lost. When it is possible to get the max level after and expansion comes out in one day makes a game too easy. Guides and sites similar to Thottbot make the games too easy.

    There was a point in time when the info about locations and loot drops and all those statistics were not readily available one click away. EQ navigation was hard you had to learn land marks, travel was not instant/semi instant like in many games. UO you lost all you stuff as soon as you left the town.

    Once MMOs hit the main stream the games got easier and easier. Remember no matter how large the group is, those who shout the loudest and cry the loudest cause the most changes to a game.

    'Congratz on your new job Cuppy' by UrbanMongral
    Submitted on 2007-07-08 15:47:01 CST
    thanks for doing these shows and all the best for the future

    'Congrats - Really liked this' by CentralNexus
    Submitted on 2007-08-14 08:15:10 CST
    I really liked listening on game-blogging on this one. I've been running a game blog for three years now on City of Heroes -- I've had my ups and downs as characters were built up, supergroups had their hay-day, and then would do the fade out. I don't post as often as some bloggers, but I do post a lot of screenshots which seem to keep people interested.

    Anyone headed to Dragon*Con this year??? I've got my fingers cross that I still get to go despite family AND work issues -- And they plan to have a MMO track this year, including, finally a panel on my favorite game.

    'Congrats - Really liked this' by CentralNexus
    Submitted on 2007-08-14 08:16:26 CST
    I really liked listening on game-blogging on this one. I've been running a game blog for three years now on City of Heroes -- I've had my ups and downs as characters were built up, supergroups had their hay-day, and then would do the fade out. I don't post as often as some bloggers, but I do post a lot of screenshots which seem to keep people interested.

    Anyone headed to Dragon*Con this year??? I've got my fingers cross that I still get to go despite family AND work issues -- And they plan to have a MMO track this year, including, finally a panel on my favorite game.