VirginWorlds.com - Exploring Massively Multiplayer Games

Shut Up. We're Talking.
Host: Darren and Karen
Darren and Karen present this commentary podcast covering recent topics found within the MMORPG Blogging and Podcasting community.

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Shut Up. We're Talking #25
Mon, 28 Apr 2008 01:46:00 GMT [download/play]

Introductions

Listener mail/What we're playing

Learning From Monsters

Suspension of Belief

Bigotry with the RMT

Blog of the Week

Hosts:

Darren - Commonsensegamer.com

Karen - Journey's with Jaye

Michael - MMOG Nation

Tim - Van Hemlock

Topics:

Learning From Monsters

Suspension of Disbelief

Anti-Microtransaction Bigotry

Blog of the Week:

To Worlds Unknown

Previous Episodes
Episode #77 - Duration: 2925 - Released: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 06:16:01 +0000
Episode #76 - Duration: 7730 - Released: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 19:34:01 +0000
Episode #75 - Duration: 4659 - Released: Sun, 12 Dec 2010 17:57:48 +0000
Episode #74 - Duration: 4071 - Released: Sun, 21 Nov 2010 20:22:45 +0000
Episode #73 - Duration: 4943 - Released: Sun, 07 Nov 2010 19:41:07 +0000
Episode #72 - Duration: 4707 - Released: Sun, 17 Oct 2010 18:28:52 +0000
Episode #71 - Duration: 3820 - Released: Sun, 26 Sep 2010 16:39:28 +0000
Episode #70 - Duration: 4623 - Released: Sun, 12 Sep 2010 15:51:32 +0000
Episode #69 - Duration: 4837 - Released: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 18:07:07 +0000
Episode #68 - Duration: 01:13:32 - Released: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 15:34:00 GMT
Episode #67 - Duration: 01:12:09 - Released: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 14:24:00 GMT
Episode #66 - Duration: 00:59:30 - Released: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 23:26:00 GMT
Episode #65 - Duration: 01:23:43 - Released: Sun, 20 Jun 2010 16:03:00 GMT
Episode #64 - Duration: - Released: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 15:51:00 GMT
Episode #63 - Duration: 01:13:26 - Released: Sun, 16 May 2010 17:52:00 GMT
Episode #62 - Duration: 01:12:04 - Released: Thu, 6 May 2010 23:28:00 GMT
Episode #61 - Duration: 01:26:12 - Released: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 01:26:00 GMT
Episode #60 - Duration: 01:57:27 - Released: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 23:34:00 GMT
Episode #59 - Duration: 01:37:24 - Released: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 03:48:00 GMT
Episode #58 - Duration: 01:21:01 - Released: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 18:45:00 GMT
Episode #57 - Duration: 01:47:46 - Released: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 19:01:00 GMT
Episode #56.5 - Duration: 00:02:21 - Released: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 12:26:00 GMT
Episode #56 - Duration: 01:01:53 - Released: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 19:41:00 GMT
Episode #55 - Duration: 01:16:27 - Released: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 02:31:00 GMT
Episode #54 - Duration: 01:14:25 - Released: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 01:51:00 GMT
Episode #53 - Duration: 01:31:47 - Released: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 04:12:00 GMT
Episode #52.5 - Duration: 00:04:12 - Released: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 19:43:00 GMT
Episode #52 - Duration: 01:04:24 - Released: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 16:35:00 GMT
Episode #51 - Duration: 01:17:30 - Released: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 23:49:00 GMT
Episode #50 - Duration: 01:35:33 - Released: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 16:15:00 GMT
Episode #49 - Duration: 01:03:31 - Released: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 21:27:00 GMT
Episode #48 - Duration: 01:13:44 - Released: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 15:25:00 GMT
Episode #47 - Duration: 01:10:07 - Released: Sun, 10 May 2009 21:21:00 GMT
Episode #46 - Duration: 01:27:11 - Released: Mon, 4 May 2009 02:05:00 GMT
Episode #45 - Duration: 01:04:36 - Released: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 20:01:00 GMT
Episode #44 - Duration: 00:56:47 - Released: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 16:15:00 GMT
Episode #43.1 - Duration: 00:18:59 - Released: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 20:11:00 GMT
Episode #43 - Duration: 00:59:34 - Released: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 01:24:00 GMT
Episode #42 - Duration: 01:11:28 - Released: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 15:14:00 GMT
Episode #41 - Duration: 01:06:59 - Released: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 01:55:00 GMT
Episode #40.5 - Duration: 00:02:50 - Released: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 17:48:00 GMT
Episode #40 - Duration: 01:16:52 - Released: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 02:45:00 GMT
Episode #39 - Duration: 01:08:43 - Released: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 06:01:00 GMT
Episode #38 - Duration: 00:37:38 - Released: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 05:49:00 GMT
Episode #37 - Duration: - Released: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 17:26:00 GMT
Episode #36 - Duration: 01:10:59 - Released: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 03:03:00 GMT
Episode #35 - Duration: 00:49:08 - Released: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 22:54:00 GMT
Episode #34 - Duration: 01:08:50 - Released: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 19:38:00 GMT
Episode #33 - Duration: 00:58:54 - Released: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 01:42:00 GMT
Episode #32 - Duration: 01:03:27 - Released: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 19:01:00 GMT
Episode #31 - Duration: 01:05:03 - Released: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 20:13:00 GMT
Episode #30 - Duration: 00:59:20 - Released: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 00:44:00 GMT
Episode #29 - Duration: 00:28:31 - Released: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 13:48:00 GMT
Episode #28 - Duration: 01:09:13 - Released: Sun, 15 Jun 2008 19:31:00 GMT
Episode #27 - Duration: 01:14:25 - Released: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 02:42:00 GMT
Episode #26 - Duration: 01:06:47 - Released: Mon, 19 May 2008 03:10:00 GMT
Episode #25 - Duration: 01:01:48 - Released: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 01:46:00 GMT
Episode #24 - Duration: 00:57:48 - Released: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 00:00:00 GMT
Episode #23 - Duration: 00:47:54 - Released: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 01:05:00 GMT
Episode #22 - Duration: 01:12:16 - Released: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 04:54:00 GMT
Episode #21 - Duration: 01:56:55 - Released: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 05:01:00 GMT
Episode #20 - Duration: 00:49:01 - Released: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 04:08:00 GMT
Episode #19 - Duration: 01:01:05 - Released: Sun, 3 Feb 2008 05:08:00 GMT
Episode #18 - Duration: 01:08:01 - Released: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 02:35:00 GMT
Episode #17 - Duration: 01:36:26 - Released: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 04:07:00 GMT
Episode #16 - Duration: 01:06:39 - Released: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 15:58:00 GMT
Episode #15 - Duration: 01:33:23 - Released: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 01:24:00 GMT
Episode #14 - Duration: 01:24:15 - Released: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 07:47:00 GMT
Episode #13 - Duration: 01:22:18 - Released: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 01:30:00 GMT
Episode #12 - Duration: 01:17:38 - Released: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 16:55:00 GMT
Episode #11 - Duration: 01:17:01 - Released: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 03:30:00 GMT
Episode #10 - Duration: 01:00:37 - Released: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 03:33:00 GMT
Episode #9 - Duration: 01:12:13 - Released: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 04:47:00 GMT
Episode #8 - Duration: 01:24:35 - Released: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 02:44:00 GMT
Episode #7 - Duration: 01:11:21 - Released: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 04:05:00 GMT
Episode #6 - Duration: 01:10:07 - Released: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 01:13:00 GMT
Episode #5 - Duration: 00:58:57 - Released: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 01:50:00 GMT
Episode #4 - Duration: 01:13:04 - Released: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 03:52:00 GMT
Episode #3 - Duration: 01:10:25 - Released: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 17:20:00 GMT
Episode #2 - Duration: 01:09:48 - Released: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 05:20:00 GMT
Episode #1 - Duration: 01:08:21 - Released: Mon, 28 May 2007 02:12:00 GMT

Episode 25 Discussion Thread

'Woot!' by Akely

Submitted on 2008-04-28 09:49:11 CST
A new co-host. Oh... so I guess Karen will leave now, eh? ;-)

This show did not include much I was interested about. But OH what a show! Thanks guys!

'Good Show! Small Note To Make' by Orkomage
Submitted on 2008-04-28 15:22:53 CST
Great show all! I was particularly interested in the discussion of purchasing a max level character by Michael, and Karen's idea of mentoring up and the idea of what a WoW killer would need to be.

I don't know if any of you have played Call of Duty 4, but the online play, despite being a fps, has several mmo qualities to it. As you get kills (xp) and as you meet goals (quests) you advance in rank (levels). Unlocking other cool skills, as well as more weapons. The interesting note is that a Rank 1 Call of Duty player can kill a Rank 55 Call of Duty player if they have enough skill. The only advantage the 55 has is a wider array of weapon choices and a few more skills to allow him to do a few more things, (which are excellent motivations to continue playing the game) but the Rank 1 player has the tools available to put two in the Rank 55's head.

COD4 has been the most popular online game on XBox live, and their recent map pack download became the largest selling micro transaction in history, doing a million sales in less than a week. I believe it is due to taking that mmo element we are all familiar with that sucks you in and keeps you playing, while at the same time not alienating your new players which you alll discussed as being a major downside later in a mmo's game life. Mmo's in the future need to take note, cause I'm positive future fps's are going to take notice and add more mmo playstyles to their content. It simply makes too much sense to pump in an extra $10million in a week for 4 maps, and by COD4's example, the game isn't going to lose people by putting new players on a more level playing field. People will still be motivated to level up, no matter how small the edge. In COD4, you can chose to start over at Rank 1 and go through the grind process all over again. The reward? A different emblem by your name.....

Been listining since a few episodes ago. Keep up the good work and look forward to the next one!

--Shawn

'Good Show! Small Note To Make' by Orkomage
Submitted on 2008-04-28 15:41:49 CST
Great show all! I was particularly interested in the discussion of purchasing a max level character by Michael, and Karen's idea of mentoring up and the idea of what a WoW killer would need to be.

I don't know if any of you have played Call of Duty 4, but the online play, despite being a fps, has several mmo qualities to it. As you get kills (xp) and as you meet goals (quests) you advance in rank (levels). Unlocking other cool skills, as well as more weapons. The interesting note is that a Rank 1 Call of Duty player can kill a Rank 55 Call of Duty player if they have enough skill. The only advantage the 55 has is a wider array of weapon choices and a few more skills to allow him to do a few more things, (which are excellent motivations to continue playing the game) but the Rank 1 player has the tools available to put two in the Rank 55's head.

COD4 has been the most popular online game on XBox live, and their recent map pack download became the largest selling micro transaction in history, doing a million sales in less than a week. I believe it is due to taking that mmo element we are all familiar with that sucks you in and keeps you playing, while at the same time not alienating your new players which you alll discussed as being a major downside later in a mmo's game life. Mmo's in the future need to take note, cause I'm positive future fps's are going to take notice and add more mmo playstyles to their content. It simply makes too much sense to pump in an extra $10million in a week for 4 maps, and by COD4's example, the game isn't going to lose people by putting new players on a more level playing field. People will still be motivated to level up, no matter how small the edge. In COD4, you can chose to start over at Rank 1 and go through the grind process all over again. The reward? A different emblem by your name.....

Been listining since a few episodes ago. Keep up the good work and look forward to the next one!

--Shawn

'Why do NA gamers react so negatively to RMT?' by Grimjakk
Submitted on 2008-05-07 02:11:04 CST
I think it IS at least partially a cultural issue. The "Puritan Work-Ethic" is still an element of our cultural DNA. In other words, we still consider that a thing or experience has value, in part, in proportion to the effort expended in it's achievement.

If someone can come in and with no in-game effort, achieve the same experience/status as you did, your effort/experience/status is devalued.

I can understand the arguement that you play these games for fun. It's not like this is actually a new thing. EBayers have been around since the text muds on GEnie. We've HAD this discussion before. ;) But part of the MMORPG experience has always (in the West, anyway) been about developing characters and achieving status through in-game effort. RMT taken to its conclusion, throws that out the window... and forces you into a ZT Online situation where you must spend to compete.

So you can poo-poo the reactionaries who resist the "new thang" that is RMT, but the objections are based both on basic psychology and a bit of foresight as to where this can (not WILL, but CAN) end up.

Just call me a Conservative. ;)

'Clarification...' by Grimjakk
Submitted on 2008-05-07 02:39:33 CST
Just realized that no one was gonna get that joke: "Ebayers have been around since the text muds on GEnie."

In other words, we had Eayer's before we had Ebay. :P

/em stops shaking his crotchety old gamer cane at the kids and goes back to his rocking chair...

'Leveling Services' by Sethanon

Submitted on 2008-05-08 10:47:17 CST
Something about the leveling service really struck a cord with me.
I've played games that had types of leveling features to allow you to play with your friends.
DAoC allowed the use of the /level command to bring up an alt if you already had 1 character at the max level and CoH/V had their system were you could bring yourself closer to your friends through sidekicking. Both features worked reasonably well.
The problem that I see is that you end up missing huge parts of the game. I'm not going to go into what that means for you the player, because I think that's been discussed at length in other places. But I think it has a huge negative impact on the game as a whole. I believe that developers spend their time improving the game where it can impact the most subscribers (WOW being the exception, apparently). If the majority of the player base, even those who are new, spend their playing time in the higher level areas, then there's no pressure for developers to improve other parts of the game.
How long, then, before we buy a game, pay the service to max out our characters (because that's what all our friend did) and spend all our time just doing instanced content and e-sports arenas.