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No Prisoners, No Mercy
Host: Julie Whitefeather & Frances Kosac
There comes a time, friends, when your favorite MMO ceases to sparkle, when even new videogames lose their luster, and the computer room becomes a prison; and all that is left are two gamers (who happen to be nuns) with a very large axe to grind. Come join Julie Whitefeather and Frances Kosac as they go to War - and along the way discuss the events of the week in the MMO industry.

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Related site: http://www.virginworlds.com/blog.php?cat=julie


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No Prisoners, No Mercy - Show 47
Mon, 2 Nov 2009 13:26:00 GMT [download/play]



Welcome to show 47!

This week we have a monster show for you...not about monsters, but 2
and a half hours of gaming goodness. Join us for discuss games and
along with way laugh until we cry. This week we are joined by guests
Keen from Keen and Graevs gaming blog, Ricknas Sarn from The Witty
Ranter podcast, and Giskard from The Engineering Guild.

Fran and Julie

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Episode 47 Discussion Thread

'RPGs' by Celestian
Submitted on 2009-11-02 18:10:14 CST
Going to disagree with your guest K&G. Counter-Strike IS an RPG. You're playing a terrorist or a special forces character.

I think your guest is just to caught up in old school mentality to think the newer games are not RPGs. Just because you don't have to spend endless hours grinding mobs like in EQ1 doesn't somehow magically make it something other than an RPG. I cringe when he seems to think "what you put into the game" somehow molds the game into an RPG.

The reason you had to have him re-explain a lot of his ideas is because he's just one of those types of people that pray for a game like Vanguard and then complain that it's terrible. Let the world use the character? Isn't that the antithesis of "sand box" he seems to want? He thinks he knows what makes a good game but when it comes down to it he's just not understanding it at all.

Accomplishment needs to take years? Maybe for him. I really don't know why this guy isn't still playing Eq1 or Vanguard and nothing else if he really believes what be says.




'Generic P:ost Title' by Julie
Submitted on 2009-11-02 19:12:26 CST
Keen had some interesting ideas about video games to be sure. Not all of them will be everyone’s “cup of tea” as grandma used to say. However, that is where videogames start - someone has an idea. Sometimes, if we are lucky, it is an idea that no one has had before (tough to do as the old adage that there are no new ideas, just old ideas presented new ways often seems to hold true).

I do certainly understand about accomplishments, but as he said, solution seems to be somewhere in the middle ground. If the game is too easy, than players will run out of game too soon and move on to another game. If a game gets too hard you may still have players move on. This is complicated by the fact that what one player considers “grindy” isn’t what another considers too grindy, and even the definition very.

I think the whole “game using his character” is more about simply playing a game and having the same feeling that you did the first time you play a new mmo and don’t know what it is all about. The opposite would be the case where were re-rolling an alt.

So what did you think about the other two guests? Ricknas Sarn and Giskard?

Thanks for the comments,
Julie



'heh' by Token
Submitted on 2009-11-02 19:20:26 CST
To his credit Keen lists ' Over analysing, rambling and confusing the heck out of people' as one of his skills and it was entertaining listening to that. I wonder if Keen got to play PlanetSide in it's early years.


'Rambling man...' by Julie
Submitted on 2009-11-02 19:42:05 CST
Keen may be a rambling man but he is also a thought provoking man. That's why he is one of our favorite guests. Agree with him or disagree with him but he always makes us think and he usually makes us laugh. And yes, thats the "Royal" we. (okay thats the Fran and I we)

Julie



'Great podcast.... though EvE dose fit this' by Pufnstuf
Submitted on 2009-11-02 20:02:24 CST
I really think you need to find the right corp in EvE and it is fun. No levels and really you can do what you want. No other game can have hundreds of people in battle. I am loving it and love the idea of consequences. Everything has a purpose!

www.eve-search.com/thread/1207294/page/1

I am also finding PotBS fun again and you might too but it is because it is unique for battles. You may want to try a trial and undo the damage van Hemlock did do the game.




'EVE' by Token
Submitted on 2009-11-02 20:07:11 CST
EVE is a con, you think you can do anything but you cant actually do anything. You can thank me when you realise it.


'Twiddle Twiddle' by Julie
Submitted on 2009-11-02 20:21:39 CST
I have had two stints at Eve Online now. The second time I lost two battleships (Ravens) in missions and I made both of them. The first time around I lost battleships to pvp when some thief stole a capital ship from the corp and hired some merc corp to war dec us when he was called on it.

Quite simply the death penalty is way too high and the whole "don't fly what you can't afford to lose just doesn't cut it). As keen said, losing two battleships is just tedious. And speaking of tedious, all my industrial character ever did was sit around for hours on end (literally) listening to the mining lasers hum. As Brent send on the video podcast from GDC, most of the time I just ended up sitting around twiddling my thumbs.

In space no one can hear you yawn

Julie



'EVE' by Token
Submitted on 2009-11-02 20:55:24 CST
Don't fly what you can't afford to lose really really doesn't cut it when you've risked it all to get to 0.0. Then when you get there your choice is farming rats or sitting in a station. When nanofit raiders are around and you cant afford to lose another Zealot you sit in the station or go out in a Battlecruiser and get blown up. Thats pretty much EVE as a non hardcore player with 1 account.


'Fair enough' by Pufnstuf
Submitted on 2009-11-02 20:59:54 CST
Funny thing: your positive podcast in May got me to sub to EvE. I do think the game is for some players.

The fact a thief stole a ship and war decked is kewl though. This cannot even happen in other games without a lot of screaming. There is definitely a Wild West feel and choices do make a long impact, though everything with work is changeable.

I guess I am okay with the higher death penalty, but I am a patient player and you indicate you push the envelope (i.e. Aion level 18 toon doing level 20 quests) and I think EvE is meant to be a little conservative in play. I guess I really value my existence since I know losing a ship can set me back weeks.

I even did DDO permadeath where I deleted characters GEAR AND ALL (except for one 'heirloom') when I died so I guess I am not a typical player. I do not raid, care about gear, or even about stats. I just want to have a nice time playing and playing with consequences makes it more immersive for me.

Have you recently played Pirates of the Burning Sea with a similar economy and the death penalty is not that bad and 1720 carribean is a kewl setting. If you have not seen it in a while it is worth checking. If you do PLAY FRENCH.

.



'Let me say this about that' by Julie
Submitted on 2009-11-02 23:27:46 CST
Don't get me wrong. It's not that I think Eve Online is a bad game. In fact, quite the reverse is true. Its just not MY GAME. As I tell my co-host every now and then between breaks in sections of the show (the recorded parts you never here) I am just not woman enough to play Eve Online. There is alot that ccp has done right, and I have often sung it's praises before. When we did our Eve Online shows there was a reason we invite players with positive experiences to be guests. I played it long enough to at least be able to intelligently discuss the game. I am just not able to handle the high death penalty. If I went back to my industrial character I would proably be just shy of being able to fly one of the big freighters (skill wise, no isk wise).

There is certainly something to be said for what you say in that Eve Online is meant for the conservative player. I will be the first to admit that I tend to "push the envelope" when I play (as I have said on shows).

I have considered the whole "permadeath" idea a time or two myself. I was once following a blogger running an "experiment" in it but I seem to have lost track of it along the way.

I haven't played Pirates of the Burning sea. I have considered it. I did play a similar game (an import) called "Voyage Century". Unfortunately, there are only so many gaming dollars to go around and we already have a number of subscriptions. And thus why you don't hear any Pirates of the Burning sea covered on the show.

Thanks for the comments.

Julie



'Keen is.' by Checksix
Submitted on 2009-11-03 15:11:38 CST
I really enjoyed listening to Keen talk about and risk vs reward. Thanks for having him on.



'Wonderful show!! ' by CindyL
Submitted on 2009-11-03 17:41:39 CST
I'm not quite done listening to it yet but I want to write this down before I forget :P

I REALLY enjoyed what Keen had to say about online worlds and mmoRPGs, and I agree with most of everything he was saying. I dream of a new mmo where the world is huge, awe inspiring but has the beauty of today's characters and the content we've come to expect all in one place.

Aion has guild housing in the works also, not sure if they have any personal housing. ;)



'OK you finally convinced me.' by Pufnstuf
Submitted on 2009-11-10 00:39:58 CST
Julie,

I just bought Fallout 3 game of the year edition. WOWZA! I need to learn to build a better character though. I tried to talk my way through everything. So I restarted and decided to nuke Megatron (but now feel guilty and may start again).

So looking forward to your creation when ready.

I am glad you are expanding beyond MMOs and thanks for introducing this.



'Generic Post Title' by Julie
Submitted on 2009-11-12 17:19:54 CST
@ CindyL: I have been playing alot less of Aion Online these days. It is, in fact, one of the issues that we discuss on the next show (I should be done editing it today). After Mr. Colin Dwan on the top half of the show, the second half plus is JMO/Jeremy who discusses his new podcast and Tipa from west Karana - and Aion is one of the subjects that breezes by among the many others.

@ Pufnstuf: We try to cover a wide range of topics and now and then single player games is one of the Fallout 3 is, of course, one of my favorite games. Perhaps that is why I enjoy Fallen Earth so much as both are post apocalyptic genre games. As for me I played through the Megaton quests first with one character, then I re-rolled and blew up megaton (yes I admit it - I wanted to see how the good folks at Bethesda would to a Nuclear Explosion in game and they did not disappoint.

Julie



'Show number 48 has been uploaded' by Julie
Submitted on 2009-11-16 11:07:34 CST
Good morning everyone,

Show number 48 has been completed at last and uploaded - our appologies for the delay (matching sound levels was a bit difficult this time around). We will upload an early release of the show today, for those of our loyal readers and listeners who are anxious to hear what our guests have to say. There will be a link to the early release of the show over at our www.noprisonersnomercy.com website.

I am sure our esteemed host and webmaster Brent will find time soon to post (or more properly "push") the show to Virginworlds.com and Itunes soon.

Our guests this week our Mr. Colin Dwan, project manager for Fallen Earth over at Icarus Studios as well as our good friends JMO (who now admits he is actually Jeremy) from mmovoices and their podcast as well as Tipa from West Karana.

Talk to you online - Julie and Fran