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No Prisoners, No Mercy
Host: Julie Whitefeather & Frances Kosac
There comes a time, friends, when your favorite MMO ceases to sparkle, when even new videogames lose their luster, and the computer room becomes a prison; and all that is left are two gamers (who happen to be nuns) with a very large axe to grind. Come join Julie Whitefeather and Frances Kosac as they go to War - and along the way discuss the events of the week in the MMO industry.

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No Prisoners, No Mercy - Show 22
Wed, 28 Jan 2009 16:33:00 GMT [download/play]

Welcome to Show 22!
One of our favorite sites is - we love games and politics and this site has them both. This week No Prisoners, No Mercy gets all political and answers a question or two along the way; and Fran finally wins an impromptu "Good Nun, Bad Nun".
1. Mad as Hell: Where is everybody?
2. Short shorts
3. Patch day
4. Flame Proof Undies
"U.S. Democracy Server Patch Day" by Sean Hyde-Moyer is from and can be found here:

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Episode 22 Discussion Thread

'Fiesty Fran!' by Seritaph
Submitted on 2009-01-28 20:22:04 CST
Wow! Just wow! Fran owned in this episode so much that Julie had to back down and give up? I guess the Warlock beat the Hunter this episode, and sent all the Rogues into hiding.


Thanks for the fun ladies.

'Rants' by Token
Submitted on 2009-01-28 22:04:23 CST
Great rants, I also play cheapest, nastiest, low down, dirty Rogue and did not take offense so nobody else is allowed to :D

'Still Laughing' by Saylah
Submitted on 2009-01-29 03:11:53 CST
LOL That was one of your funniest episodes. The government patch bit was hilarious.

'WAR less than or equal to WoW???' by rocknerd
Submitted on 2009-01-29 07:17:54 CST
i know you gals bet the house on WAR being the end all be all of gaming for you... but, dont give up yet. i notice you ladies said that WAR fixed a lot of things that annoyed you about WoW. and now that your done-ish with WAR, all of a sudden WoWs new expansion fixed the issues u had with WoW??? and WAR is the problem...?

let it be known, i love your show, and you gals are swell. so this is not a personal attack.

i tend to find that the WotLK (which i surprisingly did play even though im mostly done with WoW after playing for almost 4 years) didnt change much as far as a gaming ethos as much as they changed the games visual aesthetic and the bells and whistles, AKA; deeds & achievements...

so, what does WAR "fix" for me that WoW ruined?
the way you get gear is a biggie!!! in WoW you have to grind raids to get decent gear. quests rarely give u something useful past lv 20 and vendors are totally useless!!! WAR allows you to pick what items you need doing PQs as well as PvPing for renown to buy more gear.
another issue i had with WoW was travel time between areas. WAR has not totally 'fixed' this yet per se', but the way the world is built allows for everything to flow in a manner that i never log in and waste 30-60 min travelling or trying to figure out which area i should quest in... while logged into WAR im either in the area i need to be or i just need to walk ahead to the next map/tier and im where i need to be...

heres a very small thing, but for a solo-artist like myself, i love that WAR allows me to pull groups apart by ranged attacking one of the group without the whole group coming for me. (like every other MMO does)

so, i dont want to go into anything more here is this is not my venue, just wanted to make a few points.

i do love mr carlin and found his words and views on our world frightningly profound and will miss his sermons...

anyways, thanks for yet another fun cast, i hope you two dont give up on WAR because i have a feeling once the shine of WotLK finally ebbs you may be looking to dive back into a game that now owns the keys to your house...


'Why all the NAAAA on WAAAAGH' by mikejl
Submitted on 2009-01-29 16:14:39 CST
Well .. different games for different players. Still .. WAR is not that bad. I'm still having a blast. And I am not heavy RvR .. more PvE and PQ.
And with the disaster of WoW patch 3.08 seems all MMOs are complex beasts that can go bad.
Ok . not WoW hating. I did fours years in WoW and had a blast. Just want to point out even Blizzard cannot escape problems with servers and bad code.
Keep up the great shows.

'Good Show.' by mystery323x
Submitted on 2009-01-29 17:37:42 CST
Good show. Good thing i didnt give my character name on Phoenix Throne, if i did all the Order players would be sending me hate tells from saying they dont like challenge =) I am pretty much done with warhammer until they add something that will cause huge RvR battles. Even if they added a system to reward you for defending keeps. I am still hoping for a Darkness falls PvP type of Dungeon. But for now i am playing World of warcraft and its been good.

Good Show

'WAR' by Token
Submitted on 2009-01-29 18:02:25 CST
- Introduction Choppa & Slayer Careers in March
- A Bitter Rivals Live Event which allows players to play the classes early should they complete the tasks
- A a Chaos-themed Twisting Tower RvR battleground that will be part of the live event
- A Darkness Falls type of area, the so-called "Land of the Dead", a giant Tomb Kings dungeon that will be contested
- Whoever controls the Land of the Dead will gain access to special public quests and instances
- Land of the Dead will come in June, but feature two prior in-game live events (the first of which, "Beyond the Sands", will take place in April, the seocnd is the "Rise of the Tomb Kings" and will take place in May)
- Completion of the live events will unlock the Land of the Dead for the realm
-Official Forums

'Awesome intro' by FarSpace
Submitted on 2009-01-29 18:42:23 CST
That intro is awesome, it reminds me of Shawn & Jonathan's newest podcast Through the Aftermath.

'Generic Post Title' by Julie
Submitted on 2009-01-29 20:15:21 CST
@ Seritaph: Yes I finally lost a "good nun/bad nun" and was forced to back down. Fiesty Fran indeed!

@ Token: Actually Fran was looking forward to some "hate mail" from Rogues. By the way, what is the list of Warhammer events for?

@ Rocknerd and MickJL: We started out this podcast, as long time listeners know, with "Age of Conuns". When it came to Virginworlds the podcast, like the column I write, had a general focus. Lately, as I am sure everyone has noticed, we have been gravitating more toward WoW than War (even though we did have a goodly bit of War content in the last few shows.). However we have been considering relegating War to the "comparison" and "general news" categories for topics rather than anything in depth, and concentrate on WoW. At this point it is under consideration and we are going to ask for listener input to see where the interest of the majority of listeners lay.

@ Farspace: I am glad you liked the opening. We have been trying to do a different opening each time with audio clips and music matching one of the show topics. I am working on a new show opening for next time to match a "mad as hell" topic: "Is that a Nessingwary 4000" in your pocket.

'links' by Token
Submitted on 2009-01-29 21:08:57 CST
I didn't want to put a link in the post because they look messy but here it is anyway.

'Land of the Dead' by mystery323x
Submitted on 2009-01-29 21:30:24 CST
I hope they do it like Darkness Falls and dont just rush it out to please people.

'DF' by Token
Submitted on 2009-01-29 22:30:35 CST
Darkness falls was great if you had a static group of well geared guild mates who needed your class and could commit to hours to farming badges. I hope it's nothing like it.

'WoWzers' by Celestian
Submitted on 2009-01-30 19:41:08 CST
Well, like the Sisters here most of my guild has moved from War to WoW. Some of them have never even played WoW so it's not just the old "pull ya back in" to WoW issue.

I to will be taking a WAR vacation. We'll see what's it's like in 5-6 months. I really hope they address some of the major issues. Like how incredibly boring T4 is.

'I liked farming DF' by mystery323x
Submitted on 2009-01-30 21:16:03 CST
Sometime farming DF got out of had but i think most of the times I had in DF were great !

'Nice!' by Jmo
Submitted on 2009-01-31 07:48:40 CST
Was good to hear Fran on a rant! Apparently when she has something on her mind, she doesn't hold back. I hope the rogues go easy on

'So completely insensative' by telstar
Submitted on 2009-02-01 06:53:41 CST
Fran, why did you feel it was okay to use the word "retard" to describe something you don't like. It always seemed like you had more common sense than to offend so many people with your comments. I loved your show right up until you started using that word in that manner. I feel sad for all the families that you offended by using that word so freely and in such a distasteful manner.

I am deeply disappointed that your show took this turn.

'Sorry for the insult...' by Julie
Submitted on 2009-02-02 05:00:52 CST
This is Sr. Fran, using Sr. Julie's account to answer...I really didn't mean to insult handicapped people in my rant. I know that the mentally challenged would not like that I used the "r" word. I'm sorry, I did not mean to offend the mentally challenged. I have been playing WoW for about 3 or 4 years now, and in that time, I've been hacked, spit on, sliced, laughed at, kicked, danced on my corps....all by ROGUES!!!!! I just don't like rogues. It just seemed to me that all the rogues I meet are mean...I don't mean good fighters, I mean intentionally nasty and mean spirited. They do things to people, not just me, that I would NEVER think of doing to anyone. If you happen to be a "NICE" rogue, then I apologize for insulting you personally. Most rogues of the opposite side are just plain nasty...doing everything I listed above and more. Rogues on MY side are ok, I've met a couple nice ones. But if you do those "/spit" or "/nasty" things to the people on the opposite side you fight, is that right?? Does that make your kill more fun?? What could it possibly add to the game that just killing didn't? Sorry I hurt your feelings, I didn't mean to...Actually I'd like anyone else who reads this blog to please tell us/me about YOUR experiences with Rogues? Please write whatever you want.

Thanks, Frances

'And now back to your regularly scheduled nun...' by Julie
Submitted on 2009-02-02 05:07:10 CST
Hi Bad Nun here....

Fran did get carried away with the one epithet (being raised by a mother with cerbral palsy that's why I gently corrected her)


Rogues are "rotten to the corps and not too nice to the navy". As for my own take on rogues you should all know me by now - no apologies where rogues are concerned. Those scum sucking, anthropomorphic swamp gunk, crawling through the gutter plague of the battlefield. I despise you and your ilk and I will be happy to meet you "troll et mano" any time, any where.

I /spit in your roguish face

But tell us sister Julie how do you really feel...

Oh sweeties I am just getting warmed up..

See you on the battlefield


'Leala is a rogue.' by Beauturkey
Submitted on 2009-02-02 07:19:17 CST
She is not horrible.

But hey, you're a lot like me. You don't think before you stick your foot into your mouth. Difference is, I go after "types" that are actually jerks like elitist raiders that think people should "know how to play" or snobby role-players.

Or nuns that will say anything to get attention.

I mean, "bad nun?" I know nothing about nunnin', but I thought you were supposed to NOT say things like "retard" and anything to piss people off, JUST for the sake of pissing people off to get attention. (Which is something this show has admitted to doing.) The REAL sin is the lack of unoriginality.

You're making me think that being being a nun is about the same as, well, you know..being a kind of jerky podcast host.

Just chill. Enjoy yourself. Go after actual assholes for once.


'The MIghty and powerful oz...' by Julie
Submitted on 2009-02-02 11:42:01 CST
"Just chill..."


First, I know it was late but read the whole thing through before you reply. Fran doesn't actually have a log on of her own and was using my account to reply. If you are going to slam someone for using the "R" word (as I refer to it) make sure you slam the correct nun...FRAN

Second, I"M the one who calls herself the "BAD NUN" as in the whole "Good nun/Bad nun" part of the show (a play on "good cop, bad cop".

Third: While I may have had a bit of fun with with the whole "rogue" thing Fran is genuinely ticked off about it and not doing it for "attention".

Fourth: You think you have any idea what being a nun has been like for me - sweetie, have NO IDEA the battles I have had to fight with my life.

Just chill?

Sweetie, honey...I did not start my carreer as an author by "just chilling"

Just chill? Beau...get out more...

sign me,

Julie "Bad Nun" Whitefeather

'@Beau' by BurntSushi
Submitted on 2009-02-02 13:29:16 CST
And you wonder why people have a problem with you, I will refer you to your previous comment.

'This is a title. ' by Beauturkey
Submitted on 2009-02-02 14:15:57 CST

Julie, I DO know what you have gone through in your life to some extent because you have TOLD US.

If you want to say things like what you say, just like I do, just own it.

Difference between me and you is, I am not talking about snooty raiders (that are ruining the game) or snobby role-players (that insist that my roleplay project cannot work because of lore) just for attention. I am talking about them in an attempt to steer people clear of that behavior. If they don't want to be steered, they don't have to listen. And, after all, we are talking about video games.

I am not the one that said that I just do it for the attention. I thought you SAID you wanted flames. Seriously...I can probably go right now and find the exact quote.

Which is FINE, Julie. Shock jocks make good listening, sometimes. Go for it.

And I DID know it was Fran that said it.

You were the one that said all rogues were the scum of the Earth. Again a fine opinion. But YOU said it, not me.

I mean, I'm confused wanted like, negative comments and "wars" and stuff..I can do this stuff all day and still have a beer with ya. Just let me know what I need to do, you can even keep my cool nemesis title like "Oz" or something.

Beau Turkey

'Oz...' by Julie
Submitted on 2009-02-02 14:57:50 CST
@ Beau:

You bet I kind of like the whole "Oz" thing. And by the way, I'm not upset at all.

Beer? Sure you bet, I will even buy. When can you get to the burbs of Chicago?


'Hmmm' by Seritaph
Submitted on 2009-02-02 15:47:16 CST
I sense a "good podcast listener, bad podcast listener" arising here.

Did someone say "I will buy" in reference to beer!? Give me about 5-6 hours.

* runs out the door grabbing his coat *

'Beer's on me...' by Julie
Submitted on 2009-02-02 16:35:56 CST
*wipes beer off habit*

Yes if the "Mighty Oz" (oh is this gonna be fun or what?) or anyone else wants to stop by for a beer we will be happy to visit, and (budget allowing) beer and pizza. The best days are Wednesdays, Saturdays, and Sundays.

p.s. I have never had a "podcast nemisis" what incredible fun....

Hugs and Kisses and cold beer

Julie "it doesn't violate the vows as long as I don't get drunk" Whitefeather

'Nice' by Jmo
Submitted on 2009-02-02 17:44:55 CST
"it doesn't violate the vows as long as I don't get drunk"

Couldn't help but laugh.

'Bah!' by Celestian
Submitted on 2009-02-02 19:09:29 CST
Ignore Mr. Turkey. While his wife has a wonderful podcast I tend to avoid his. The guy is a old school grind your face off/10 hour raids/corpse recovery sorta person and all that goes along with it. I mean who played Vanguard and liked it, he did.

I don't even remember the comment about rogues and if it was made I'm sure it was just a statement made while discussing frustrating players or some such.

I know you ladies put yourselves out there and these sorta people will come down on you but please take it with a grain of salt. Game-ragers are best ignored. He's just looking for a fight when he mentions something completely unrelated like your chosen profession.

'Serious??' by mystery323x
Submitted on 2009-02-02 20:04:00 CST
@ BurntSushi
"And you wonder why people have a problem with you, I will refer you to your previous comment."

"Ignore Mr. Turkey. While his wife has a wonderful podcast I tend to avoid his. The guy is a old school grind your face off/10 hour raids/corpse recovery sorta person and all that goes along with it. I mean who played Vanguard and liked it, he did."

Im just wondering if this is all serious.

The thing that made me think this was just a joke is because "The guy is a old school grind your face off/10 hour raids" He always says how much dislikes raiding/raiders.

I just think he likes to express his opinion.

'Just @' by Jmo
Submitted on 2009-02-02 20:32:20 CST
The majority of the people who leave comments here are bloggers and/or trolls. Their entire purpose is to state their opinion on things, regardless of what others think. So take everything that is said with a grain of salt. For the most part it is just one person's opinion, and it is impossible to tell someone they don't feel the way they do, even if you feel that they're wrong.

I'm one who personally felt that Fran's comments went a bit overboard, but as a listener to the show, and a guest on the podcast, I know that she did not mean any of it as a personal attack on anyone. If you've listened to the shows at all, you know that neither Julie, nor Fran, are actually in this to hurt any feelings, or make any personal attacks. Fran doesn't like rogues, plain and simple. And boy did she let it be known. I'm right there with her though. Not to the point of calling rogues "Retards" or "Rogue-tards", but I do also feel that they are overpowered in PvP. Stun lock is a bitch. Can't even get an attack in edge-wise half of the time because you've got the swirly over your head. That can be a frustrating part of the game. But then again, who's fault is it for playing on a PvP server? In my case, it's mine (and my friends who started a guild there. =p ).

Take the comments and flames as you will, no one will ever win. One person feels one way, and others feel another way. Nothing is going to change that, especially flames and personal attacks.

'Mmmm...Beer' by Seritaph
Submitted on 2009-02-02 21:08:46 CST
" *wipes beer off habit* " - Julie

I sense a "good habit, bad habit" coming on.

(sorry, couldn't resist)

Ok, ok....I hear the groans!

'@mystery323x' by BurntSushi
Submitted on 2009-02-02 22:37:32 CST
Sadly I am serious.

All Beau does is troll anymore. He finds topics and tries to derail them, state his opinions like fact and devalues others or play devils advocate just to stir up crap.

I would have no problem with him if he wants to express his opinions, but unfortunately that isn't what he is doing. He loves to create drama from non-issues.

I don't know if you have watched the Vanguard forums, but he is quickly destroying his reputation over there with posts just like this one. Look at his last show comments, he is even snarky with his listeners. All the guy did was ask him why he didn't hand the show off to someone that is as dedicated to Vanguard as he once was. Instead he just gets snippy about it and dismissed him. I think it is because he doesn't want to lose his Community Site Staff status with Vanguard by handing the show to someone else.

I think that he does this to get attention either for himself of his podcast, but either way it is negative and that is why I stopped listening to it.

I am sure he will come back on here when things cool down just to stir the pot again, because that is what he does anymore.

'@Jmo' by Celestian
Submitted on 2009-02-02 23:05:22 CST
"I know that she did not mean any of it as a personal attack on anyone"


It was a rant, expect outspokenness.

'Don't want to LOSE MY STATUS?' by Beauturkey
Submitted on 2009-02-03 01:22:05 CST
And I GRIND for hours and HOURS?

Oh man...I can't believe some of the stuff people say!! lol

Burnt, I think you place waaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyy too much value on things like the forums, and a title.


'An arch-nemesis' by Julie
Submitted on 2009-02-03 19:37:41 CST
@ everyone! very own arch-nemesis! I fell just like batgirl or catwoman! Gotta love this thread. Fran even delayed the show for a couple of days to cover this thread a bit. It will be uploaded later this evening.

You know I had an NCOIC in the military who used to say "if a soldier couldn't complain she wouldn't be happy."

Just color me very happy.

Julie "it doesn't violate the vows if you don't actually get drunk" Whitefeather

'oops' by Julie
Submitted on 2009-02-03 19:38:07 CST
I FEEL just like batgirl...

'You people...' by Ceadrick
Submitted on 2009-02-04 05:27:43 CST
I really hate political correctness in any form. In the United States we have laws that protect free speech. Yes I would have a problem with someone calling a person with a mental disability a retard, but a rogue, who cares. We need to worry less about the words we use and more about the thoughts we hold silently in our hearts. Secondly I've noticed a little rivalry between the Turkey's and the Sisters. What's up with that? Have fun all.

'What fun...' by Julie
Submitted on 2009-02-04 11:20:22 CST
The political correctness issue I will leave aside for the moment...

But the rivalry? I can only speak for myself. As I said above I have never had an "arch-nemesis" before, so I am just having a bit of fun (as you will hear later on today when we put out the next show_

But remember everyone - even if you are batman you have to treat your arch-nemesis with respect! Why? Do you know what batman is without the joker and the riddler? Just another guy sitting around a cafe and drinking coffee.


'No rivalry here..' by Beauturkey
Submitted on 2009-02-04 14:11:51 CST
Here is the history:

1) Julie comes on the podcasting scene, we had not heard her, but read her blog here.

2) We were blown away by her first show. I felt like Clapton looking at Townsend, while watching Hendrix: "We're out of a job."

3) Julies shows starts to get more into specific games, thought it was more about all sorts of gaming. Fine with us, either way.

4) Lately Julie looks to say things that she is either saying for arts sake, for arguments sake, or because she really believes it.

5) She said she was okay with flames, and even has a section in her show called "Flame Proof Undies."

6) I flamed her, for her comments about rogues. Calling someone a "retard" is not ok, but neither is calling them scum. I really don't see the difference. As much as I give obsessed raiders and snobby role-players a hard time, I never call them more than "obsessed" and "snobby."

7) In the end, she is a fantastic podcaster. I have always said this. We do not care enough about some comments to even let temporary bad stuff take away the long term good stuff. That's what my hate-stalkers do. It's just weird.

8) We would say much worse in person, probably. Not "retarded' but we would definitely bust each others chops.


'Show 23 is uploaded' by Julie
Submitted on 2009-02-04 18:26:18 CST
Show 23 is uploaded. Fran asked to postpone it a day or two to talk about this show thread.

Me? I was just having a bit of fun. I don't know about anyone else..

"...felt like Clapton looking at Townsend, while watching Hendrix: "We're out of a job."


I'm am not sure from the above who's chops are being busted, mine, someone elses, or some pork chops..


'Pointing it out' by Jmo
Submitted on 2009-02-04 18:55:45 CST
"7) In the end, she is a fantastic podcaster. I have always said this. We do not care enough about some comments to even let temporary bad stuff take away the long term good stuff. That's what my hate-stalkers do. It's just weird."

Beau says this, and I'm 100% positive that Julie feels the same way in reverse. It's a friendly rivalry if nothing else.

"I'm am not sure from the above who's chops are being busted, mine, someone elses, or some pork chops.."

mmmmmmmmmm....pork chops....*licks lips*

'supergir is super hot' by Token
Submitted on 2009-02-04 21:29:20 CST
By hate stalkers you guys are talking about those retarded Rogues right ? :D