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Van Hemlock Episode 22
Wed, 15 Oct 2008 00:02:00 GMT [download/play]



We're back with another show in which we provide ill-informed commentary on the news before going on to rant yet again about how A Tale in the Desert is great before Jon ruins it for everybody by deciding he's not enjoying Warhammer Online.

If you're free on the 28th of October please come join us at The Eurogamer Expo (http://expo.eurogamer.net/) in London, there may not be any MMOs on offer but there will be the best and the brightest of the other games being released this year on show and we'll be randomly commenting on everything that we see.

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Episode 22 Discussion Thread

'garbage in garbage out' by Token
Submitted on 2008-10-15 11:09:06 CST
Enjoyable show.

The pod caster trend of soloing has been brewing a good rant from me for a while now and here it is. You guys have some seriously skewed opinions about guilds and groups, possibly from some old hardcore experiences. I don't know why you think the pressure of server first guilds have to apply to you. I raid about once a month, occasionally jump into the arenas with random members and have access to guild professions when I need them. I barely socialize, never log in to vent but it opens up the game for me during the few hours a week I get to play. Why can this not happen for you? Why do you have to play a game on your own, turn off all the chat windows and grind away become more jaded with every kill. What are you getting out of this? :D



'On Music..' by mikejl
Submitted on 2008-10-15 11:10:35 CST
because of all the bugs and bad patches. However, when I listen to the music from the game makes me want to jump back in.
I do like the music in WAR. And WoW also has good music scores. Too bad you WAR experience is lacing Jon. I think all is shiny because I am in CoW. I wonder my AoC experience would have been better if I was in a great guild.
Great show.
Mike



'First MMO on consoles,' by CindyL
Submitted on 2008-10-15 13:24:23 CST
Was Final Fantasy XI, I know barely anyone talks about this game, I'm thinking because of it's grindy nature but it is to my knowledge the first MMO to be on the Ps2, Xbox and PC. Age of Conan wasn't the first to try. ;)

It doesn't surprise me that many people would like to be on the side of the underdog in MMOs, which probably causes a lot of shifting around once one side gets more popular then the other. It's cool to be in the group that is less 'strong', and sort of the outcast, and for some people it creates a bigger challenge, until your group becomes the stronger one.. lol.



'Cut N past fail' by mikejl
Submitted on 2008-10-15 13:48:44 CST
Total cut N past fail on my past on my previous comment. Should have started with:
"Music really is an important part of any game for me. Example I played AoC for three months and ended up quitting "
. . . .
because of all the bugs and bad patches. However, when I listen to the music from the game makes me want to jump back in.




'Great Podcasts of the 20th Century ...' by Elsyth
Submitted on 2008-10-15 16:00:10 CST
Nice podcast but I'm starting to see you as two old men bickering about how when you were lads you had to grind for 16hrs a day just to to get to level 1 after 6 months (add comic yorkshire accents for effect). Its surely not all doom and gloom for the newest games and should we be constantly comparing them to what's gone before rather than as something completely separate? Who knows .. but there this little though in my head that taking shape that thinks podcasters become pretty jaded and self important after a while and nothing will ever satisfy them unless it comes in a gold plated box delivered by 3 bikini clad females (now there's a thought) anyway where was I .. er yeah .. keep up the good work.

Now for a potential discussion topic .. Add-Ons (aka Mods)

Yes those annoying little third party apps that make your life so much easier until the next patch when everything goes dark and it the end of the world as you know it until the apps catch up again. Good? Bad? Easy way for Developers to be lazy and not provide the functionality in the UI to play the game in first place?



'Soloing...' by Jon
Submitted on 2008-10-15 17:41:41 CST
@Token If I come over as soloing all the time then it's because I don't talk about the corp I run in Eve much. I think that's the problem you're seeing, we just don't want say too much about what's going on with our social game experiences because odds are that will cause problems. My corp knows I do this podcast and so everything I say that sounds slightly similar to an actual event is assumed to be about 2 or 3 members of the corp who all get very upset with me and then accuse me of making fun of their predicament :)

I think I'm not alone in this, and you're right. We do all look like we avoid other players and just shut off the chat windows because of it. The only way we can avoid this is by staying utterly anonymous and stay off voice chat.



'Don't underestimate the 20th century' by Jon
Submitted on 2008-10-15 18:01:06 CST
@elsyth Don't get me wrong, I think warhammer is a very good game if you like PvP. I just don't get where the adrenalin high is in it's combat. It's hard to be positive about a game you've just decided to quit though :)

As for comparing games to what have come before I don't think we can help but compare them. Each game builds on the last and some then take features from the games that come after and implement them. This does mean that since no game will ever have every feature perfectly implemented we do tend to keep saying that other games do some things better. I shall watch out for when I say that in future and be a bit clearer.

Lastly you insult me. 3 bikini clad females? I don't pay attention until at least 6!



'good show bad website' by Sente
Submitted on 2008-10-16 11:33:47 CST
Seems I got caught with VW loosing my post when I pressed submit - the timeout problem. WIll try to remember what I wrote...;)

Follow the Daedalus project link to see more of the actual surveys that Raph referenced. There are a few surveys that he picked bits and pieces from.

Music and sound: I think this is essnetial to thwe MMO experience, so I always have these turned on. I like much of the Tabula Rasa music and sounds. Some of the earlier zones have some tunes that become a bit annoying after a while, but for the most part I think it is quite good.

Guilds: Expect for one guild in EQ2 and one in AO I have generally not had any problems with a certain amount of committment being required. The ones I have been in has been pretty laidback and respectful of that people have different lives and levels of committment in a game. I don't know if such guilds are easy or hard to find in Warhammer Online though.

@Token: While I understand your comment about podcasters and soloing etc, I think that comment may be a bit undeserved for this particular podcast - at least I have not the same impression from listening. But I am also in one of the guilds that our podcasters are members of though.

Thanks for the nod for the completion of Prophecies, BTW ;)

And the next game in line to revolutionise and change everything I believe is The Chronicles of Spellborn. Although they do not make so much noise, so maybe there is a risk that it might be true ;)
Release date November 27th.

And thanks for mentioning Pain Inverter. Sounds just like you were in the Nightfall mission I have been trying to get through and it sounds like a good addition, will try to hunt down that skill...



'You Guys Are My downfall...' by cinderbrood
Submitted on 2008-10-17 06:50:18 CST
Great show as always but after going back over some of the older episodes youmentioned playing "atitd" in your own sort of no spolier hell mode,

Intresting idea thats now lost me two evenings of sleep as i run around trying to work out how the hell to build some god damn carpentry blades :( either way thanks for reestablishing my intrest in a less well known mmo :D



'Digging and Research,' by cinderbrood
Submitted on 2008-10-17 07:57:53 CST
Ill gladly come help dig a whole, Im still getting the hang of this stuff myself,

Reasearch is regeion wide btw ;) not egypt wide.



'Digging and Research,' by cinderbrood
Submitted on 2008-10-17 08:04:09 CST
Ill gladly come help dig a whole, Im still getting the hang of this stuff myself,

Reasearch is regeion wide btw ;) not egypt wide.



'Digging and Research,' by cinderbrood
Submitted on 2008-10-17 08:05:36 CST
Ill gladly come help dig a whole, Im still getting the hang of this stuff myself,

Reasearch is regeion wide btw ;) not egypt wide.



'Err Can someone clear those up,,,' by cinderbrood
Submitted on 2008-10-17 08:06:48 CST
Sorry bout that firefox decided it wanted to be special >.>


'Err Can someone clear those up,,,' by cinderbrood
Submitted on 2008-10-17 08:11:13 CST
Sorry bout that firefox decided it wanted to be special >.>


'Skewed Opinions...' by VanHemlock
Submitted on 2008-10-18 05:38:59 CST
@Token; You raise some very interesting points, which are definitely worth further dissection. We do try to cover these types of topic from all the angles we can, but as you point out, we are two specific types of game, with specific types of history and past experiences. I'd like to discuss this further - please do mail me!


'For the record...' by shuttler
Submitted on 2008-10-20 14:04:11 CST
1, I only watched heroes the once!

2, you two are some of the most social beings I know :D whether thats ingame, or on twitter or even taking the time to coment here. I dont think your views of socializing are inaccurate. Everyone has different expectations from games, groups or whatever. I know how much you love to group when the group is good! Isnt that what we all want really, a good group? I hate being lost amonst a massive impersonal guild that demands I lo0k at the website to see whats going on, and if I dont log in for 5 days I am booted out of that guild!

Your talks of tale in the desert really are tempting me, it reminds me of my first MMO gaming when i didnt really know about levelling so I explored and followed my nose and did things like harvesting and crafting as i went.

P.S. Halloween event in CoH/V time for the evil ones to take out some zombies! Always fun hunting with the VH. Jon you coming zombie hunting?