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Spouse Aggro #63
Mon, 8 Dec 2008 23:35:00 GMT [download/play]

Spouse Aggro # 63! (formerly Voyages of Vanguard!)
 The Highlights:
 * Grouping:

 Leala argues for "Shut up and fight."
 Beau argues for "Take time to smell the zombies."

 *  If we could build it, would they come?

 A new segment for the show! Over the next few shows we are going to designing our own dream MMO! This week, we are telling you about the settings our games will take place in. Feel free to chime in with advice!

  * Trial by Fire, News.
 CoH trial, Issue 13: Day jobs, Shields.
 Playing the D and D online Trial (5 bucks at Gamestop!)

 Playing "Shin Megami Tensai's IMAGINE."

 Vanguard's Trial! GET IT NOW!

 Show links: (Beau's streaming site and blog.) (Leala's podcast and guild.) (Leala's blog, go here for the new logo blog and her entry about her love/hate relationship with raiding.)

 Now, go LOG IN!

 Beau and Leala Turkey

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Episode 63 Discussion Thread

'Setting of my perfect mmo... and other stuff >.' by McDonagh
Submitted on 2008-12-09 01:37:31 CST
I have gotten tired of all the hack n slash fantasy MMOs(even WoW... somehow) so it certainly wouldn't be that. Sci-Fi and other futuristic settings are underutilized and i would have one in mine. However, it wouldn't be a space MMO, I prefer to keep my feet on the ground. And this is where my inner pyro kicks in. I love tanks, big guns, explosions, helicopters, and sometimes mechs when they aren't those gundam things that so often pop up out of Anime. The world would be a lot like our own only civilization would have been basically smashed to pieces and people who previously held power or their rivals are trying to piece things back together in a way that favors themselves or their ideas. Players would be survivors of this shattered world trying to get by in a world with large amounts of technology but few people to use it and fewer still to keep it out of the hands of those who would seek to use it for their own selfish ends. Players would be able to work with themselves along with NPC factions to either help rebuild the world and provide a better future, or take all the tech, weapons, and resources for themselves to help them conquer the remnants.

I hope to see many more spouse aggros to come :P

'What a game should be' by TranquilAbyss
Submitted on 2008-12-09 02:56:44 CST
I always thought in the past I had the be the first person in a game to have fun in it. I would try to get in beta and find what i enjoyed playing then i would shot out of the gate trying to beat the content. Within days now people are posting information left and right of how to beat everything. So i moved on to EVE Online, its a sand box, do what you want in any order. There is the titian to frigate skill system that takes a few years to train for but you there is so much in between that will still make you useful. PvP is a big focus but the market seams to be larger, who will make all the ship that get blown up.

All that said I still look for better. to make people find the play style they want in one game. I have been working on some ideas that sound promising. I think what needs to be replaced is the instant/quest/mission/linear progression that has one time enjoyment value. Meaning its a mystery to you once but it loses its affects after that, story wise. So lets replace it with a rumor based system. You go to a village and hear a rumor/tale/legend of a creature plaguing their lands or any other need of the people. you go on a long quest into the wilderness or location of the creature, maybe competing with other players, to kill it and win glory and gold. But once this quest of yours is finished you are a hero of the village it and the rumor is not released again. As you get better known you can rank up in the community and unlock more stuff for you to access. This is only a part of the an entire game thought up in my head. Tell me what you think.

'Cool' by FarSpace
Submitted on 2008-12-09 03:58:14 CST
I really like the Spouse Aggro theme, of "Better gaming, together" Gratz to Beau and Leala Turkey for your continued success too.

'Will comment better after I pass out...' by Beauturkey
Submitted on 2008-12-09 05:08:08 CST
...but thanks for all these cool comments, and thanks for lissenin'... Ima go lay and dream of possible scenarios! :)


'Discovery & Tactical Raiding' by FarSpace
Submitted on 2008-12-09 07:08:52 CST
Please forgive me if I'm misunderstanding anything, I was fascinated by both of your conversation in the beginning and this is what I was thinking because it was a pretty relevant discussion that many people could relate to btw, a good think plus it was funny :)

Personally for me I like to discover things & content my self 1st taking it slow, reading and figuring out stuff.

Then later, it is then fun to go through that same content tactically raiding it with others, so that I enjoy both ways.

imo, everyone, if they would like, should take the time to discover the particular content 1st, and then do that same content as a tactical raid with everyone else.

Or if it is a group only thing then ask the group that for at least the 1st time to let you hang back and check things out if possible.

As a reference I'm playing CoH right now.

So I suggest that it might be a good to 1st do a mission or quest by your self or with one other person and take your time and all that, then tell your raiding group you are ready to get it on with them.

'Organised Raids/Groups' by shuttler
Submitted on 2008-12-09 09:17:20 CST

Great show, loving the recount of your discussions from everyday trips to the store or breakfast :D

I really like taking part in groups and dont mind being told what to do to get the job done to me I still have fun with the banter and the chaos and its a different enjoyment. However, the explorer in me can at times feel like someone has done all the exploring. I also have loads of fun working out puzzles and so forth. If I am not doing the work then also I find it harder to learn my stuff. If I am not learning why something does something and I am just doing it.

However exceptions to this occur too. Currently we are in a great supergroup and we are on a tour of the city, however they take the time to explain why things are happening. They are also great for asking questions and not minding at all. They take the time to tell us why things happen no matter how noobish the question may be.

I think thats the difference, if someone is being elitist and just not teaching you anything then its pointless. However like the example of my supergroup they tell us what is going on and if say my endurance drains very quickly they will ask me if I have toggle powers on or show me how to check my endurance drain and explain it to me in a way I can find out more.

'best of luck to y'all' by AlikSteel
Submitted on 2008-12-09 10:59:18 CST
and now we can say that the VoV is dead.
Thanks for all the good times and good luck with the new show.

Alik Steel

'Nice!' by Shawn
Submitted on 2008-12-09 13:21:23 CST
I used to listen to VoV for awhile because I like Beau, but I knew nothing about Vanguard so I stopped listening for awhile. Once Beau and Leala started doing the show about all games I started listening again, and I have to say I'm loving it more than ever. Love the whole new identity, too. Great stuff!

'Wrote a nice comment, lost it.' by Beauturkey
Submitted on 2008-12-09 14:08:27 CST
I will try to recap:

1) Rumors are a killer idea. Slightly competitive, without the possibility of exploiting. Also, has a nice "live event" feel to it.

2) Doing a mission solo IS good homework before trying it with the supergroup or guild. At least, spying the area out and stuff. I'm down for that, and most MMO's nowadays gave some kind of hint or sneak peak missions into the areas.

3) A good supergroup? I want in. Oh wait, NCsoft won't let me play with you. Oh well, I won;'t be taking those tours with ya. I DO want to find a good SG though. It was awesome to get back in the ole' base on this last free weekend.

4) Alik: Still playing VG and talking about VG, so don't stop lissenin! It has become harder and harder to land an interview or to get much audience interaction on VoV, so this was a much better route to follow. :)

5) Thanks. I like you, too. Not like in the way I like Leala, although that's cool, but you know what I mean.


'nice' by James
Submitted on 2008-12-09 19:45:50 CST
Having dabbled in raiding for a collective year of my MMORPG career, I can see the appeal it has from a teamwork perspective. But I'm definitely in Beau's camp on this one. The cookie-cutter, formulaic aspect of it just personally bores me to tears and the repetitious, e-peen gear harvesting of it all is so UN-RPG in my opinion that I just can't riff off it anymore.

At the same time, I can see how if you're raiding with a group of folks you enjoy playing with (as I'm sure Epic Dolls does) even the relative monotony of "stand on point X and do your job" after you've done something 5+ times can have it's perks.

I'm sure the fact that I'm an antisocial f@ckwad somewhat fuels my aversion to most things involving more than 10-15 people in-game AND out, too. = P

Great show, great concept, looking forward to the next episode. Love you guys!

'... Long live Spouse Aggro' by welshtroll
Submitted on 2008-12-09 21:06:26 CST
Another good show, glad you found a name and a rather apt one at that.

I've not been listening to this podcast for that long so I can't really comment on previous content but i like how the migration into a new entity has gone.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts on your ideal MMOs they are quite thought provoking and I can see that they have been very well thought out.

I think it's great that even though Beau is the one that seems to favour the Lore/background elements of games it was Leala choose an existing product to identify as an ideal MMO environment for her. But then I think you Beau would rather the element of surprise at every corner in an unknown.

So on to the homework:
I tend to be a solo player when I'm not teaming with people I know quite well, I rarely PUG as they tend to be grind-groups that have no interest in completing arc missions. I'm a great fan of lore and enjoy reading up on each part of my characters adventures, but I will tend to forgo the lore when on larger task forces purely as they are quite long and really the team doesn't need me stopping to catch up on the storyline halfway through.

My ideal game would be futuristic although not too far in future say 20 - 40 years.

Oh and btw the logo rocks Leala.

Oh plus, Beau you should try the "joining the midnighter arc" in heroes, we done it the other day maybe right up your street.

'Great show / Long post' by Gnova
Submitted on 2008-12-09 22:09:07 CST
There is a lot of the explore content VS "get shit done" content in the new EQ2 expansion.
All of the instances have events in them that seem very "raidlike" since the co-ordination needs to be pretty good between group members. There are lots of mini-puzzles to figure out in order to beat the instances.
Early in the expansion it is a lot of exploring but six months from now everyone will know the zones by heart and all the challenge will be gone except finding out how fast you can zerg through them. I enjoy doing both, exploring the first time of two through but after a few times I like to see how efficiently we can do it.

As for a MMO:
I'd love to see one set in the timeframe of around the start of the industrial revolution. Machines exist but still have an aura of wonder to them and people are a bit afraid of them. Medicine is still full of half truths and folk nonsense. Outside of populated areas it is still pretty wild. I'd like to see a bit more of a sandbox world where faction plays a major role in your characters development. I don't mean the complete nine million quests and kill seventeen billion mobs faction grinds, what I mean is that if you choose to kill a certain NPC for a quest it may be that your faction with a certain area of a town/city is damaged permanently. Perhaps you have gained a new skill or spell but at what cost? Was it worth it?
Your choices will affect your interaction with the world and going out and killing 50 of the opposite faction won't reverse it. Faction differences would affect which quests you could do for NPCs and depending on your levels with different groups the quest objectives would change making it different for everyone. This would eliminate the current practice of web browsing quest solutions. In general, I'd like to see fewer quests than is normal in the new breed of MMOs but have them more difficult/involved to complete with greater consequences to their completion.
The same character could have multiple class subsets trained/leveled but only one specialty can be selected at a time and only the very basics of the others would be able to be used without the specialty equipment stored in a bank or vault (example, when a spy you would be able to do very basic healing on yourself but anything major would be impossible because you left your scalpel and leeches at home. When you are a healer you could do basic spying but couldn't stealth very well because your disguise kit is at home.)

'I logged in!! ' by Nemz
Submitted on 2008-12-09 23:05:11 CST
Great show guys! I look forward to many more...

'Oddly Familiar name...' by Celestian
Submitted on 2008-12-09 23:15:55 CST

'imo' by FarSpace
Submitted on 2008-12-09 23:41:00 CST
Not odd to me, but hay, that's cool, it is your opinion and I'm not saying anything is wrong with it, so I'll give mine :)

There may even be a Spouse Aggro something out there too jnowing the internet, but that's not the point.

It's how well "Spuise Aggro" "Better Gaming, Together" fits Beau and Leala Turkey and their podcast.

imo, it fits fits great, and that's the point.

'yeh I know bout Wife Aggro..' by Beauturkey
Submitted on 2008-12-10 00:19:41 CST
I'm sure the defunct show will forgive us, and ask that we only give them 45 percent of our royalties.



'What ever happened to Luper?' by mystery323x
Submitted on 2008-12-10 03:36:33 CST
What ever happened to Luper ?

By the way Good Show :)

'Me and Luper got divorced in '04.' by Beauturkey
Submitted on 2008-12-10 04:22:18 CST
I met Leala at Fan Faire this last year. We got married on stage by Jay Baker (son of Jim and Tammy Faye) and had cheerleaders for bridesmaids and a de-flower girl that threw out shredded porn instead of flower petals.

Luper has moved, and I miss her, and we still remain friends. She has been UBER busy (as I ) and we have talked about getting her back on, but I have not heard back from her on anything. Also, if you notice, it is not dedicated to Vanguard and she is not my spouse. She does have custody, however, of our 12 year old, Luis.

I wish she would start her own show, I think it would be a great show for the community! Then people can email her and ask her what happened to me.

Her email is still valid, I think.


'Don't ever fade' by telstar
Submitted on 2008-12-11 04:11:25 CST
Hi Beau and Leala. I look forward to your shows every week. Thanks for making a great show VoV into such a fun and interesting podcast - Spouse Agro.

I heard Luper went to LA and now has a supporting role in the new Eddie Murphy movie - any truth to that?

Keep 'em coming - I love it

'Stop and smell the zombies' by repairbot74a
Submitted on 2008-12-14 07:26:11 CST
Wow, it is so amazing to hear the antics of a couple mirror my wife and I when we sit down at the computer... We've both been WoW players for a couple of years now- I began playing WoW- my first MMO and eventually annoyed my wife to the point that she began playing. She immediately surpassed me in level, gear and knowledge about the game, started her own guild and began raiding on a regular basis. We often have arguments about the game; I favor a more free-form and experimental approach, have an interest in exploring, following the quest lines and learning the stories that are told, and in dungeons I enjoy using new or unique strategies. She often tells me 'you have to do' this or ' the right way' is that, and I maintain that there is no fun to the game if you are limited to the tried and true, tested methods of accomplishing everything. i can't imagine, myself, raiding Kara every weekend for months on end, until the whole guild gets 'kara geared' and then moving on to running ZA endlessly. In fact, i was thrilled with the new Achievements system pout into WoW, because that is the aspect of the game that I enjoyed most even before the ability was there to track it- seeing how far I could fall without dying, going on long, convoluted quests in low-level areas simply to follow a certain storyline thru to completion, or attain a now useless, but interesting or fun low-level trinket or ability (like stealthing through BRD to obtain Dark Iron Smelting at level 70, or completing the chain to gain the quest item 'Dartol's Rod of Transformation'). Whereas she is content to load up the 'QuestHelper' mod and follow the dots on the fast-track to level 80, so she can get to the 'real game', i.e. raids with her guildies. Where she researches the most powerful spec for whatever she happens to be doing at the time, I play around with talents and gear I find fun or interesting.

I just want to say, I understand how infuriating, and how much fun it can be to share something like MMO gaming with a significant other who looks at the game in an entirely different way. I'd also like to say how much I enjoyed discovering the 'Epic Dolls' podcast as well- it is one of the most fun and I look forward to new episodes in both podcasts now. Keep up the good work!


'Yay!' by LealaTurkey
Submitted on 2008-12-14 14:03:14 CST
Thanks everyone for the great comments and for sharing about your ideal MMO. It's so cool how everyone's ideas are so different.

And thanks for sharing repairbot! One idea I've had for the show is to maybe have other couples on who game together to talk a bit about exactly those types of things. Maybe we can chat sometime?! =)