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Voyages of Vanguard (and other fun and unusual games) #61
Sat, 22 Nov 2008 17:01:00 GMT [download/play]



The highlights from this show:

The honorable Leala from Epic Dolls podcast (on Virginworlds) joins me again to discuss PERMADEATH!!!!!!!!!!

That's right, we talk about how it might work, how it might make you feel, and how stupid I am.

Enjoy, Earthlings!

Beau

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Episode 61 Discussion Thread

'you 2 are cool' by FarSpace
Submitted on 2008-11-23 17:53:05 CST
You 2 make me want to get married again..., almost. :)

Cutest cool songs.

Your Permadeath talk has given me some good ideas, thanks.

also that would be cool if games gave some missions that you needed to stay alive in order to complete or even get the goods at the end.

what i;m saying it would be nice if game could implement it in ways but yes I agree we can do it our self, why not. Sure I'm gonna go for it.

great listening to you 2 and both had great input.



'Yep' by Beauturkey
Submitted on 2008-11-23 20:03:52 CST
I would like to see just the option, but of course I will never say that it's just EASy to implement. I mean, these games were built around rewarding people for staying alive, not showing them what death is like! lol

Thanks for listening!

Beau




'Not your average Vanguard player, hehe jk' by FarSpace
Submitted on 2008-11-23 22:52:13 CST
Not your average Vanguard player, hehe jk

I was thinking Beau, your trademark has always been doing things in a way were it was more how you did things or it was about the journey, not the destination.

I think it would be great if your new name for the show had something to do with the different ways you like to play games. Like RP, and maybe not so much what you say but how you do it too.

Has Leala thought of anything close that might be the right name, since she knows you so well. And she is smart.

Beau Knows, oh oh, how about keep it simple and close to what you had, like Voyages of Beau? that would be VoB, :) cool. or Beau's Voyage? Something like that, if Leala likes it,then it's gold :)



'Ever Check out LotRO, Beau?' by Checksix
Submitted on 2008-11-24 07:22:27 CST
In LotRO, every 5 levels you make it without dying, you gain a badge. I think it caps out at 20 or so but it's EXTREMELY hard to make it that far without any deaths.

So, it's more of a carrot approach than a stick one. I support more carrots over sticks on things like this becaue of the way the sticks make you feel. I think Lela was right about how harsh death penalties effect alot of the player base.

But imagine, every level you make without dying gives you more hitpoints per level. Or perhaps, evey level without a death gives other real perks. I think that would be cool.



'Good ole LOTRO...' by Beauturkey
Submitted on 2008-11-24 14:21:16 CST
I'm so rempted to get that lifetime account. That game has some AWESOME parts to it, and I love all the immersive stuff like the emotes and music. And the new expansion RULES it looks like.

Yeh my friend was trying to get the level 20 medal, but died at the last minute. I am calling it my "training" and I am using Lealah (my monk Goblin) as the warrior. She is level 6, and I think I can hit 10 no problem.

I will be streaming her "training" this week! :)

Beau

PS: The name? Whatever it is, Leala, whether she wants to be on the show or not, would HAVE to approve. She is MY BOSS. :)



'great show' by shuttler
Submitted on 2008-11-25 06:51:06 CST
You guys rock, this was a great show thank you both.

I love the ways you guys inspire me to play games differently.

Whilst I like getting nice things in a game and acheivement badges for exploring. I realy have never been a level chaser, I just like to go with the flow have some social fun and find cool places to explore.

I'm stuck in CoH at the moment simply because I love the character design and the real feeling of being part of a 'team' with the guys we play with such good times!

LOTRO always calls me, I cant afford another monthly fee but if I had the cash to drop on that lifetime account, I totally would!

Anyway thanks again!

oh...

quick thought on immersion as I know you like this Beau :P

I love it when a game has cross overs into media to get me immersed. I guess like LOTRO has the books and films. I'm playing a single player game deadspace at the mo because it has lots of horror, a comic and anime that goes with it which gets me wrapped up.

Do you guys read much stuff like this to get immersed? are you into comics and stuff too?



'USED to be into comics..' by Beauturkey
Submitted on 2008-11-25 09:30:03 CST
..when I was younger. I grew up during the KICK ASS age of the real X Men and the heights of Wolverines popularity. I had some good ones, a first run of that Joker special book, uhm...forgetting right now.

But then SPawn came along, and to be honest I have always hated the hell out of Todd McFarLAME. His characters were unoriginal, and when his art first hit with the Spiderman and The Hulk, it was great but then you could tell he was just phoning it in. Then everyone copied him. Ugh.

So yeh, I liked the CoH comics too, how you get em with the sub is awesome. It would be cool if more games had alternate media like CoH and Lotro.

Last time I played I made a brand new ice kid who was left outside too much by his abusive parents and grew into a cold dude. I loved it. I might need to re-sib that for a t least a month.

Thanks for the comments!

beau






'but I'm scared of death' by welshtroll
Submitted on 2008-11-25 14:22:36 CST
First up, a very interesting topic on the show, I really enjoyed it.

I think Perma-death is a rather scary idea to many folks, including myself. I'm a story player and really enjoy reading the quest blurbs and how they slot into the general storyline of the game. I think the thought of losing the time spent on a character is one that I'd been concerned about more that losing levels.

I'm kind of jealous of the role-players (an area that I'm not good at nor do i have the time to indulge in) in games like City of, the depth of the scenery and locations offer such diverse opportunities to immerse yourself into the world, it is another method for distracting you from the level grinding content.

beau I agree with your comments on the CoH comics they offer some great insight into the history and lore of the game. You can see them all in PDF format at this location http://www.cityofheroes.com/media_and_downloads/official_comic_archive/comic_archive.html

Additionally I'd recommend the two books :
The Web of Arachnos by Robert Weinberg and The Freedom Phalanx by Robin D. Laws. Both give some great background into the two iconic figures in the games Statesman and Lord Recluse, both are worth a read if you can get your hands on them.



'ooh' by shuttler
Submitted on 2008-11-25 16:53:57 CST
Very cool there is CoH novels

*goes to amazon




'PD' by Talyn
Submitted on 2008-11-25 19:33:09 CST
Permadeath is supposed to be scary! It's the ultimate risk!

But then, any tabletop RPG player is already accustomed to the idea. D&D and others were "permadeath" (I don't even think that term existed then) unless there were opportunities to have your character raised or the GM made an Executive Decision on the matter. The point of tabletop RPGs wasn't grinding for gear or PvP scores though. The point was having fantasy adventures and more importantly, having fun with your friends and walking away with some lifetime memories. Characters came and went but those memories lasted forever.

I haven't done it yet because I'm so entrenched with Moria and having a blast, but I've been in contact with a PD guild in DDO I will be joining at some point. DDO seems even more setup to deal with PD since just like the tabletop version, it's all about you and your group so there are no respawns for all the other players. It also encourages discussing tactics and taking it slowly and cautiously because one wrong move or one Leeroy moment and your character gets deleted...



'Well, one thing to remember' by Beauturkey
Submitted on 2008-11-25 21:57:46 CST
is the golden rule: if it aint fun, dont do it.

Perma death is, for me, just something to explore, to see how it feels. MMO's and the internet can be a good place to check out different feelings or ideas while being safe.

Sorry to sound cheesy.

But seriously, like I said on the show, I have been in a very morbid mood lately, but not in a "I'm so sad" way, but in a "How weird it is" way, and the permadeath thing has actually kinda' helped me wrap my head around it.

But again, only because it is fun. I will never be one of those players or people that does something in my hobbies or in my art that does not bring me enjoyment. They call that work.

And yeh, I remember D and D perma, but I never died. My brother (the usual GM) made sure we didn't.




'@Welshtroll' by FarSpace
Submitted on 2008-11-26 17:33:39 CST
I just got done reading The Freedom Phalanx by Robin D. Laws.

I liked it allot, my favorite is Positron, he really seams like a cool guy I would look up to.

Great action and battles and lots of info on the backgrounds of the characters like Statesman and his family.

Good read and I'm not useualy a reader but it was fun and I even got emotional sometimes reading it :) haha

So I'm going to get Web of Arachnos by Robert Weinberg now. thanks for the reminder.



'AGHH!!' by Beauturkey
Submitted on 2008-11-26 19:30:55 CST
I cant resub to those games! Agh!

Ok, maybe I'll use one of my trial cards and check em both out again. Long weekends call for re-playing games.

Damn, where are those install discs?

beau




'permadeath RPr's in D&DO too.' by FarSpace
Submitted on 2008-11-29 07:14:42 CST
I heard that there were a good amount of permadeath RPr's in D&DO too.

So far the closest I got to it so far is in CoX they got a thing were if you choose to go on a task force useualy 4 + missions and choose the option if you servive and not die then you get a special badge. And it had made it more fun.

If anyone else doeas these things I for one find it interesting to listen to how others use different options and ways to play.