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Voyages of Vanguard #49
Wed, 16 Jul 2008 05:53:00 GMT [download/play]

Make sure to go to read our blogs and articles!

The highlights from show 49:

* Me and Luper talk send out thanks to our sponsors!
* Guess who's going to Fan Faire? WE ARE.
* We talk about what we did in game! We DID A LOT!
* Beau went to some dungeons, and Luper talks about a COOL high 30's dungeon.
* Talk more about Fan Faire!
* ISLE OF DAWN talk!!
* Lupers phone rings and Beau's doggies bug him.
* Beau gripes about the inability to get a racial mount (QQ) and Luper gripes (yawns) a bit too. Forgive the editing. It's crazy. I was SOOOOO tired, we had been up at 2 am recording because I had to be at the hospital to do my rounds. I missed some stuff in the edit. Oh well. Podcast Grp looking 4 EDTR.
* At the end of the show is our new contributor, JUTE! She's doing a cool interview!!

Beau and Lupita McCooingStein....that's STINE!

 PS: No one has guessed Silius' fav. movie yet! Keep the guesses COMING!!!

 Remember, the 25th of July will be our live, in-game recording of our 50th SHOW!! We will record live in game at Lupers' guild hall, but you will need to log in to Skype to join our live conversation. This will be at night, 'round 7:30 PM, Central time USA!

 This week's song is picked out by Beau and is "Everything's Ruined" by Faith No More! This band was fun back in the day, when I saw em live they threw a bunch of food all over. This band has my favorite drummer. To this day, if I record, I use him as a good sound to base my drum sound off of.

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Episode 49 Discussion Thread

'Liger - breed for it's skills in magic' by telstar
Submitted on 2008-07-16 03:19:53 CST

It's a horse with wings pretty much

Love the show! have fun at FF

'Grats on FF' by Mogda
Submitted on 2008-07-16 08:08:54 CST
Congratulations on going to Fan Faire! Make sure and take a ton of pictures for those of us that can't go. Sounds like you guys are going to have a blast.

'Nice Show' by Seritaph
Submitted on 2008-07-16 15:15:59 CST
Grats to Luper on hosting, Sorry about your racial mount problems Beau, but I guess immersion rules have their price. How could I have not guessed the right favorite movie, my guess was AWESOME! Oh well.

And hey, Jute, nice interview! You have the perfect voice and kept the interview rolling along nicely with some great questions. Total Party Kill sounds like a lot of fun.

Much better than this interveiw:

'Good Show Guys.' by Checksix
Submitted on 2008-07-16 16:17:55 CST
Since I blasted you guys on your last podcast I thought I'd stop in and say nice job on this one.

Keep 'em coming! I really enjoy the game tips. Also Jute did a fantastic job in her small segment.

'SWRaki LFG 8(' by Mashidin
Submitted on 2008-07-17 08:23:10 CST
Heya VoV gang! Awesome podcast yet again. I love lengthy 'casts since they keep me company during long, mind-numbing tasks at work and I don't have to change tracks as often. It certainly helps when they are as entertaining as you two. Keep 'em comin, we're all listening!
It broke my heart to hear about Beau's grouping trouble since I have that experience almost every time I group - I try to help groups anytime I see a cry for assistance over the regional channel. Just know that anytime you just want to bum around in Telon with a partner there is a mid-20's Raki Monk hangin around in Kojan just crafting away, dreaming about being a great Leatherworking master and eventually traveling the world and seeing amazing sights to tell his future raki grandkids. You helped me a few times in-game and I'd be happy resind my offer of being your evil nemisis if you have need of my meager talents with brass knuckles.
On a coupla side-notes: I beliieve the name of the boxum and booty-licious babe from the Dragonlance chronicles you spoke of was Caramon's wife Tika.. the waitress from the inn where our adventurers meet Fizban the Fabulous in the first book. She was featured on the cover of the third book cover and yes, I had the pre-teen hots for her myself.
I think the creature Luper was discribing, while not a pegasus, is indeed a creature of greek myth. It sounds from what she said like a Hippogrif (sp?) which had the hind-end of a bird and the front of a horse (hence the "hippo" i think).
And finally, your choice of music was off the charts awesome for me. Mike Patton, in my mind, is one of our greatest voices and all around killer musician and Angeldust, from where that song comes, from is my favorite album of all time. A little trivia about the drunner: he once appeared on an episode of Jeopardy. Hmmm talented and smart. Good combo.

'That's it! Tika!' by Beauturkey
Submitted on 2008-07-17 19:42:24 CST
Sweet...yeh man when your 13 everything is crushable.

I had the hots for this girl in my class, and looking back, after seeing pics of her later, she wasn't much to look at, but I thought she was soooo beautiful! lol

Thanks for the comments...we'll talk about the nemesis thing, over some ale at Fan Faire...YOU ARE COMING right? :)

Try to get to our live recording the 25th...get Skype too.


'No FF for Mashi' by Mashidin
Submitted on 2008-07-18 07:30:54 CST
Sadly, I won't be making the Fan Faire. It happens right smack at the beginning of school for me, however I noticed that I neglected to congradulate you and Luper on getting to Fan Faire yourselves with all the bells and whistles and stuff. I can't wait for what will probably be a series of drunken podcasts covering the event from you guys. Have fun for us poor non-Fan-Faire-going slobs out in podcast-land.
I DID notice though that I got the Hippogriff description aaaaallll backwards. Head=bird and butt=horse.
I will certainly be on the Skype thingy when it happens. It should be fun and I'll even grab a nasty 6 pack of Natty Light in your honor, Beau, for the event. It should be a blast. Is it a safe assumption to say that you guys will post the time on your blog a day or two ahead of time? Catch ya then bro.


'Too much fluff' by scytale2
Submitted on 2008-07-18 10:11:32 CST
This is a verrryyyy lllooonnnggg podcast, without much content. Whilst it's kind of allright to listen to, there was definitely no more than 45 mins worth of material.

The good stuff is good, the rest is fluff and doesn't do you much credit. Whilst Troy's casts were long too, he had a more "soapbox" style, which was more stimulating. The "banter" puts this more into the "dumbed down" group with SUWT.

Note, though, that last week with the Dev was not like this at all (although the banter with him was also a bit irritating), as it contained insights and opinions, not just chatter.

'I'm not real clear on who Scy is..' by Beauturkey
Submitted on 2008-07-18 10:52:56 CST
...but you've been posting for a while, here, I think. Once in a while you pop in, usually with comments like that.

I mean, that's cool you think that and all, but as much as you criticize...could you just go out and make your own podcast so I can see how much better yours would be? lol

So, what exactly would be less irritating? I mean, since you seem to not really like much of anything, just wondering where your magic button is! lol


'Most Excellent' by Klojamir
Submitted on 2008-07-18 10:58:52 CST
I am not a Vanguard player but listening to you two makes me want to go out and purchase the game. It is really interesting to hear a down to earth discussion about the game and its mechanics. Another thing, the community behind you has got to be awesome, it blows my mind how they chipped in to help you on the FF deal. I just want to say Nice Job and thanks.

'Interesting' by darrenl
Submitted on 2008-07-18 11:03:44 CST
Beau...I've barked up that tree before, with no luck.

Personally, I would love to see Scy come out with his own podcast. He obviously has much to teach.

'Well, it's cool...' by Beauturkey
Submitted on 2008-07-18 11:07:03 CST
I mean, every party has one of those guys...I worked with one, a political science major with a goatee. He would literally scratch it all the time.
We were busy one time, really slamming busy and he stops in the middle of a rush and goes "This is such a strange know, it's a lot like society...blah blah" and went on about how government is a machine and all that.

Granted, I think Scy is a smart man, more than likely, but he's just one of THOSE guys.

Also, I agree with him in some points: we talk way too much on this one, but it was very late, and I edited it fast and put it out for fun.

Oh well, maybe I'll meet him at Fan Faire and we can talk about the political landscape of MMO's and how it effects...where's my beer?


'Interesting' by darrenl
Submitted on 2008-07-18 11:09:58 CST
Beau...I've barked up that tree before, with no luck.

Personally, I would love to see Scy come out with his own podcast. He obviously has much to teach.

'/find Beau's beer and hands it to him...' by Brent
Submitted on 2008-07-18 11:11:14 CST
I think I read this already. Ah, yes. I have.

'What was irritating..' by scytale2
Submitted on 2008-07-18 11:57:30 CST
Just a brief response on this..

Asking the Developer what his favourite colour was and then spending 3-4 minutes on whether he was allowed to have "black" counts as irritating. There were other similar pointless things amongst some "gem" questions.

I've said before that QC is important on this web-site and that the podcasters should be challenged to eliminate the dross. I really like what you do, when it's good and it has a character all of its own, but it needs a big edit pencil. Most of the other podcasts do too.

Saying that you did not have time is fine, if it's true, but maybe 70+% of the podcasts on the site are equally unedited and thus similarly "don't have time" for the crucial editing.

You have a model here in Brent's meticulous and info-packed podcasts to follow.

Anyway, don't take it to heart - this is one of the best podcatss on VW - if you wanted feedback, you got it.

'I like the dross' by Seritaph
Submitted on 2008-07-18 12:55:31 CST
The dross is funny. Scy, you're basically telling Beau to pitch away his quirky sense of humor. I would be downright sad if Beau started acting serious all the time, not throwing in stupid "what's your favorite color" questions.

Constructive criticism would be, hey it's a bit long in the tooth, not hey Beau change your personality.

I think Jute should have a permanent show section for those wanting a more staged, professional series of interviews, or maybe just make her a co-host too to keep Beau on task.

'SUWT, Banter?' by Jaye
Submitted on 2008-07-18 13:20:28 CST
Scytale, I'm kinda surprised you think that SUWT has a lot of banter and is dumbed down. Based on the topics recently, and the guests that have been on the show, I'm having a hard time figuring out where you see that.

Btw, I do think your feedback is valid (although the delivery sometimes makes it hard to be seen constructively). But I think everyone is on the same page here. Each podcaster who records for the collective is working hard to make the best show they can, and if you go back and listen to shows from a year ago vs today, I think across the board, every show has shown amazing improvement.

I've had the pleasure of working with both Troy and Darren on their shows, and I've been a guest on others, and I have a lot of respect for all of the podcast producers. They are doing a lot of "behind the scenes" work to constantly raise the bar of show quality, from content, to audio, to editing, etc.

As for Beau and Luper, they have a different style from Troy and me, but they've picked up the ball and run very far with it. I'm impressed with how many developers and great guests they've had on the show, and I'm thrilled at their success so far. And Jute is a nice addition too!

'Are you sure I didn't work with you? ' by Beauturkey
Submitted on 2008-07-18 14:52:00 CST
Dude, do me a favor, please: Stop listening.

I am not going to read a cue card full of questions, and of course, occasionally, I will put out some shows that are better than others.

Sorry to disappoint, but I can't stop having fun. To me, that's know..NOT fun.


'By the way Brent..' by Beauturkey
Submitted on 2008-07-18 15:13:20 CST knock at you with the cue card thang! :)

That was just a knock on doing something boring. You gots mah!


'cards?' by Brent
Submitted on 2008-07-18 15:33:37 CST
What queue cards? I do the show off the top of my head. Just winging it.


'Ok now see? Now that coffee house theorist has got me feeling bad.' by Beauturkey
Submitted on 2008-07-18 15:36:33 CST
I'll buy ya a beer. Or 6.

By the way, I heard your band. You guys are mean sounding, and frankly I don't want you near our children. If we had children.


')**(' by AlikSteel
Submitted on 2008-07-18 16:55:40 CST
wow it never fails ,when ever I think you knocked the ball out of the park ,some one says 'YOUR SHOW SUCK'S".
any way ,it was the same as allways GREAT. I love it when you two are just yourself's and not dealing with any one. Just having a good time talking about things to do with the game.

oh and try the Alik Steel starter kit. drink a 6 pack (what ever beer you like)then 2 srewdrivers ,and last a shot of jagermeister. After my starter kit you should be good to go for any thing...have fun at FF

Alik Steel

'Fun?' by scytale2
Submitted on 2008-07-18 17:23:36 CST
Tbh I expected a bit less defensiveness. I am simply giving you feedback. I like your Vanguard stuff and I can live with some "idiosyncratic" padding. I think you do take a somewhat moral high ground sometimes, but I like your "immersion" concept and I am interested where you take it.

Jaye I agree the podcasts are improving, but to me it's too slow. All bar a few are far too long and I'd just like to see people taking a bit of responsibility for their output, which is given freely by Brent. He's too much a gent to hassle people about this, so I will take up tan independent mantle:) If SUWT has improved recently, as people seem to indicate, I might well give it a listen again.

Maybe I'm wrong in wanting more punch and less wishy washy - perhaps people like having 3 hour podcasts to drift along to, when they are driving. But imagine if the Lord of the Rings Film was 12 hours long and included recitals of all Tolkien's poetry, just because the editor had a cold? True some people would like it, but in practical terms it would be a lesser product.

Anyway - am signing off - I won't give you any more feedback for a while.

'Sweet.' by Beauturkey
Submitted on 2008-07-18 18:30:39 CST
That would suit me.

Understand that I am not a professional. This is all done because we wanna' talk about our hobbies. It's SOOO much easier to talk about how we should all sound like Brent (I like to leave Brent's style his own) rather than either making your own show that sounds that way, or to try to understand a few things about the differences in the shows here:

1) Brent's show (the one we should all sound like) is mainly a news show about MMO's. He puts his opinions in there, but he never takes it over the top. He has his shorter and longer shows, as well as moments of small rants and moments of "stick to the facts." Also, he is covering SEVERAL MMO'S. See, I cover ONE.

2) Covering one MMO has it's limitations. I can do one weekly 30 minute show, covering the recent happenings, or I can have a longer show (usually we tried for 1 hour, but things come and go) filled with personal in-game experiences and *gasp* a few moments of non-mmo related material.

3) Let me tell you the reasons I have heard and the reasons I think I am getting great dev interviews:

A) SOE is great about community.

43) The dev's are nice people, and have told me they have fun on my show, because all they DO ALL DAY is talk about "When will my class be fixed?" Also, did you ever think that maybe some of them gave indications that they might not want to roll in such specific waters, for fear of being mis-quoted or taken out of context?

X) The community response has been wonderful. Humans seem to respond to an audio podcast MUCH better than a text "Letter from the Editor". I have seen the responses, every day, in my inbox and PM box. Most of the players have told me "It's cool to see the dev's like normal people." Not "What? You didn't JUST talk about the news and cover very very specific topics?"

See, the problem I had with you is that all I have seen you do is hand out criticism. Recently, the only show I can find that you seemed to LIKE is "Not Your Average Gamer." I think we all know that while it is a good podcast, no one would argue that it is not, for the most part, a personal audio blog. Yet on here you seem to have such issues with us just filling in time with non-game related talk. (Which, by the way, in my show, makes up a few minutes, MAYBE.)
If you are going to be "that guy", you know, the guy that KNOWS everything, show me what you can do man...I have seen or heard nothing.

So yeh, I asked for feedback, and so did you by constantly posting your chin stroking.


'Umm...' by Luper
Submitted on 2008-07-18 23:55:15 CST
I like pie, and Vanguard.


'' by Checksix
Submitted on 2008-07-19 07:31:48 CST

Any time you produce something for the public and ask for feed back you open yourself to the possiblity of not getting the answer you hoped for. I think it's very bad form for you to attack Scy and accuse him of "chin stroking".

Ok, so he's a vocal critic. Ok so he annoy's you. But telling him you don't care if he listens...I don't know...sounds like sour grapes.

TBH, Beau, I find YOUR banter sophomoric, arrogant, and even some times, chauvinistic. Maybe some people find you funny, but I don't. I still listen because I get little tips about the game. I also respect the amount of time you put into this thing.

You want me to stop listening too?

'I hate to add ,but I feel I must' by AlikSteel
Submitted on 2008-07-19 08:36:09 CST
I think by feedback that most of the VWC are asking for is more like sound (it was to low or to high) ,feel (as in it felt a little slow ,or it felt a bit long). Not like what has been going on as of late.
It's just not Scy that has been doing it. When you tell some one that you don't like what thay do ,yes it is personal. I have said this before on anothere show ,that if for what ever the reason you don't like a show don't listen to it ,don't leave a comment saying whatever. If you stop listening and if there is a lot of the listener's feel the same way and thay do the same then the show will close or ask what we are wanting from them. Then you can say will I think it would be good if you did this.. Coming on the comment's telling the rest of us what you don't like is just in bad taste. If you really would like to help and you want to let them know a few things that you don't like ,send a mail. Don't put it out hear. When you start doing it this way you bring every thing down.
Instead of remembering this show for what it was. For me it will be how the comments went.

I just don't want V W C turned in to every othere forums. Let's keep it light and if you really need to say something that could be harsh ,do it by email.

Alik Steel

'You don't get to pick. Sorry.' by Checksix
Submitted on 2008-07-19 08:52:31 CST

Sorry, if you ask for feedback you don't get to pick what feedback you get. If you want to keep things light on the comments section I suggest you ignore criticism you don't find valid. Don't feed the monster that you don't want to grow.

The Intertubes are an unfriendly, immoral and uncivilized place. You're GOING to get flamed. Expect it. Plan for it. Grow a thick skin.


'nope' by AlikSteel
Submitted on 2008-07-19 08:59:59 CST
See you all most had me there.
I will not be goated into it.
If you want to pick a fight find anothere.

Alik Steel

'So now I can't think of something witty to write in this thing.' by Beauturkey
Submitted on 2008-07-19 09:05:07 CST
Well, I don't want anyone to listen that has so many problems with the show.

I mean, let's look at what has been discussed:

Scy doesn't like the show, that's what evidence shows.

He said my show was full of fluff, among other things. Logic would say that he should not listen anymore. This was never anything but me telling him that if he wants to pass out so many critiques, (and we're not talking even handed critiques, you can scroll up and see how he called me fluff and dumbed down) and that if he wants to call me out every so often, I should be able to call him out. Of course I understand how the internet works, and have been doing podcasts and blogs for years.

Again: I do not want anyone to listen to my show that lists 736 bad things about my show without mentioning 1 good thing. And why would anyone like that WANT to listen?

Anyway, do what you want. I don't hold my tongue and don't take things personally.


'Gosh darnit!' by Luper
Submitted on 2008-07-19 10:31:03 CST
You guys just had to make me step in. =/ Play nice or I'll put you in the corner.

Well, I actually didnt mind what Scytale2 had to say. It's nice to hear things from others' perspectives. Every one has their own opinions. He just expressed what he liked and disliked about our show. Nothing wrong with that.

I also agree that we can't pick what type of feedback we want unless we express that in detail, which we didnt.

In my opinion, Scytale2 will continue to listen to the show if he wants to or not, and I don't think he would stop just because one show wasn't what he liked. I believe that's where he was going with his statement. Maybe... hoping we would do more of what he prefered.

I'd like to see our show improve. I think it has, and will continue to improve. My favorite part about our cast is that we don't have a set routine; we change things up a bit ever show. I think Beau may get a little too defensive because he is a very passionate person. I believe we are like that when it comes to something we love and enjoy.


'Hello everyone!' by Jute
Submitted on 2008-07-24 11:50:46 CST
I just wanted to say thanks for the nice comments. I really appreciate Beau and Luper giving me the opportunity.

I'd also like to say that it was their podcasting style that first hooked me. I love Beau's laid back approach and I think his contrasting style to Luper's is one of the show's big strengths.

They must be doing something right because people love the show!

'Please keep up the banter!' by v1perz53
Submitted on 2008-07-24 16:26:28 CST
Man these arguments forced me to register to post. The way I see it is this:

If a TV show or movie is out that you don't enjoy, or find offensive, you don't watch it. Be it big budget or indie. You don't watch a TV series then send the producer a letter saying what they did wrong.

I see podcasts almost as indie TV shows with no picture. Like old school radio shows. The makers of the podcast can make them how they enjoy. There is a bar on the podcast or your media player. If you don't want to hear Silias' favorite color, skip ahead a few minutes, don't bash the podcast for asking it.

And yes, scy was bashing, not criticizing, at least in the first post. A criticism offers suggestions on how to improve (which you only did when called out). You just called out what you personally didn't like.

Listening to episode one of "not your average gamer", the host talks about how some of the best rated podcasts are ones with more then just facts. I can read a forum post for facts, who needs a podcast. The combobulator podcast is a small bit about WoW and a large bit about whatever the hosts want, and I love it.

I liked Troy's VoV podcasts a lot, but ever since Luper and Beau have taken over, I have LOVED the cast. The banter, the info, the juxtaposition of Luper and Beau works incredibly well imo. I will go so far as to say that this podcast has single handedly broght me back to loving VG. Free time was nice, but to hear the devs talk and to hear the kind of community VG has made me love it even more.

So PLEASE don't cut the banter. You can skip it if you want, but a lot of us enjoy very much listening to Luper's BFF montages or Beau's fanfaire adventure. Gives a connection to the podcaster that feels so real. And thank you Beau and Luper for making VG that much better for me.

'Bah forgot a comment' by v1perz53
Submitted on 2008-07-24 16:29:35 CST
P.S. I don't think anyone is complaining about criticism, especially Beau, but people are telling him to change his personality, which is an attack on him. I don't mind people having criticism, but scy and check both criticized in a very mean (for lack of a better word) way. If someone tells you they don't want you to talk about yourself in their podcast, there is nothing wrong with telling them to stop listening.

'luper and books' by kimbajmann
Submitted on 2008-07-26 18:26:18 CST
I must say that luper really has a sexy voice. This not to be crude, just very feminine and a joy to listen to. The turkster has a great voice too and I always enjoy the pod. That being said, I have a 20-30 of the books from the series that luper is reading. Time of twins up to some of the minitaur ones and elf ones. I wouold be happy to mail them to beaue or luper as sort of a thank you for the enjoyable times that ai have had listening to your podcast. I am in TX visiting my father so cannot go look atm as to what titles I have but once i get back home, I would be happy to box em asn send them lupers way. Or sent them to beau's way if you do not want some stanger knowing your mail address lup.

'sorry about typos lol' by kimbajmann
Submitted on 2008-07-26 18:29:09 CST
I was on a few beers don here in Galveston when I typed that lol. MY offer does stand

'oh by the way' by kimbajmann
Submitted on 2008-07-26 18:38:18 CST
Keep up the great work despite some of your fans fingers being too large for the laptop keyboard. Your contrast in styles is very good and those who beat up on the turkey for being a noob are just simpletons and cannot see how benificial it is to get both sides of the equation into a podcast. It would bore me to tears to just hear about high end uber raiding. The need for someone looking at things from a noob (even though you are not) standpoint is very valid. Those who cannot see why you argue from that side are just not too bright. Keep it up - I listen even though I do not play vg and that should be a compliment to any podcast.