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VirginWorlds MMORPG News
Host: Brent
VirginWorlds is a weekly news podcast covering Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Games (MMORPGs) such as World of Warcraft, EverQuest, Guild Wars, City of Heroes, Eve Online, Vanguard, Lord of the Rings Online and many many more. The VirginWorlds MMORPG Podcast is the flagship podcast of the VirginWorlds MMO Podcast Collective found at http://www.virginworlds.com

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VirginWorlds Podcast #138
Sun, 8 Feb 2009 23:55:00 GMT [download/play]



First show in some time and to get back in the swing, Brent talks about Turbine, Mythic, SOE, the Chinese and then he rants a little about people who say stuff is broken.

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Episode 138 Discussion Thread

'Concerning classes and levels...' by Checksix
Submitted on 2009-02-10 15:34:36 CST
Saying some one doesn't understand MMO's because they think the old defacto class and level system is a broken paradigm isn't an argument.

Levels and classes MAY just be the best alternative we have in the CURRENT generation of MMO's but, quite frankly, it's not the only way to skin this cat. Neither will it be the defacto most popular paradigm in the future. The class/level system works now, in WoW, but will it make sense when games get more sophisticated? Do levels and classes make sense in the context of Fallout 3? What about CiV IV? What about the serious problems of segregating players who want to play together that the current "Level" system imposes. Karen talks about that all the time.

I'm kind of surprised at you, Brent, for being so closed minded about this topic. And, really, kind of pompous about it.

"But Fallout 3 and CiV IV aren't MMO's" I hear you cry. To that I must say: "You just don't get it."

If MMO's are going to fix what's "broken" about them, they should begin to investigate what makes other games fun, and look at ways to incorporate that. MMO's will get more sophisticated...or die.



'On Addiction' by CindyL
Submitted on 2009-02-10 16:47:06 CST
Completely agree, it is aggravating to watch so called professionals using computers, the internet and gaming as scapegoats when the real problem is and has always been social and yes quality of life. Game addiction clinics were tried before and the doctor responsible for one came to the conclusion that game addiction is not an illness to be treated, it's a sign of deeper issues. However you don't need a degree to realize this but common sense or maybe just general gaming/internet experience.


'classes and addiction' by Brent
Submitted on 2009-02-10 17:24:20 CST
@Checksix: If you take a look at this original post, I think it'll be clear just how obtuse his direction this matter is. http://www.tremblinghand.net/2009/01/ten-ways-to-fix-mmos.html Also, I'm sorry but I don't see how CiV IV figures into this discussion as a valid point, so you'd have to fill me in there. On Fallout 3 - it's a SINGLE PLAYER game. There is only one role, hence, no class distinction. And, what I'm r4eally saying here is that the writer of the article doesn't understand the importance of classes within the playability and psyche of the 'average player'. You and I probably love the idea of super complicated build-your-class scenarios because we're huge game-nerds, right? (Right, i love that stuff, see Ryzom and Eve as examples.) However, making a blanket statement to the MMO development industry that they need to ditch classes altogether - that's just plain stupid, which is why I made the statements that I did.

@CindyL - whew, so I'm not crazy then? Good deal and thanks for the info.



'Concerned about City of Heroes Mission Designer' by shuttler
Submitted on 2009-02-10 19:22:06 CST
I hear the mission designer in CoH is going to be limited in this first iteration.

You have to choose from predefined caves and warehouses. You can only put MOB's in predefined spawn points too.

I guess that does leave the text and the type of MOB you use, but this does concern me for it's success.



'@Brent RE Classes and Addiction' by Checksix
Submitted on 2009-02-10 20:45:01 CST
Civ IV figures into this because it's a game that offers almost infinite replayability, which is something MMO's are attempting to accomplish through content and end game PvP. Civ IV does it without the problem of always having to add content and dump more resources into the game. If MMO's are going to survive, this idea of "Content" patches will need to go the way of the dodo or change in some way.

Yes, Fallout 3 is a single role game. It's a ROLE playing game. Aren't MMO's also role playing games? In fallout 3 my character is alot of things. He's a negotiater, a scavenger, a stealthy "ranger" of the wastes and a combat bad ass when he needs to be. Why can't I play an equal number of roles in WoW? Because Rob (Rod?) Pardo decided I should stick with tank and be happy enough with that.

Fallout 3 is a good example of a more sophisticated game. I'm not locked down to a single "Class" and I don't feel like I am. It also doesn't feel over-whelming in terms of choice. It's just natural.




'Fallout 3' by Brent
Submitted on 2009-02-10 21:29:02 CST
Fallout 3 is sophisticated?


'@Brent RE: Fallout 3' by Checksix
Submitted on 2009-02-10 22:52:23 CST
In terms of immersion and character development...yeah I think so. In terms of an expanding narriative...yup.

Do yo like the word elegant better?



'elegant' by Brent
Submitted on 2009-02-10 23:57:19 CST
Yeah, I actually do like that as a descriptor.

I think you and I, Checksix, are trains passing in the night here, We're talking about two different things, both with merit, both quite different angles of attack on related topics.



'It depends' by FarSpace
Submitted on 2009-02-11 00:49:27 CST
It depends on the game play, if it is PvP then I would go with skill based but please not like EVE has it were you log in 80% of the time just to change a skill at odd times.

And as long as they got a system like CoH with the sidekick and exemplar syste then leveling is fine as long as your not stuck between levels not able to get passed a mssion.

btw if CoH is going to have a lame editor then it's not going to be worth it to me, I'd rather play NWN 1 & 2 and make mods.

Also Star wars is looking pretty good in that it couldbe a space game of exploring the universe, but we'll see. EVE was great in it's own way but I played it for 2 years and I just can't be logging on just to chang skills for the rest of my life or stay logged on with EVE in the background all day. I just want to change skills through game play as I earn them or by use and that skill get stronger.



'@Brent RE Elegant' by Checksix
Submitted on 2009-02-11 18:13:09 CST
Wrong again, Brent!

I'm on a boat!

http://www.hulu.com/watch/56632/saturday-night-live-digital-short-im-on-a-boat